@GGG - Could someone explain why Mjolner is having its cooldown increased? [new 2.6 changes :P]
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I hope for an answer, I never really liked Mjölnir (because it was never a good item without using Discharge anyway), so even when I got one I just put it aside, because I knew that I had to get Devotion to be able to use it (which is kinda funny because right now you need Devotion more than anything to use Mjölnir... not Volls Devotion your own though).
Don't expect a quick reaction (unless they just say they look into it), because they might not have put too much thought into it. But I would be surprised if such a topic doesn't get some attention, if it would be easier to get a good read in the forum they might be inclined to check things out here more often, but right now I would assume that about 90% of the posts are entirely meaningless and don't provide any information for them at all or are just trolls. " That is a bit too much, because you can still create charges while having Discharge on CD. Romira essentially continually creates Charges you can use. You only lose the charges that Discharge did create itself, so I assume the dps loss is around 30%, because for each proc of discharge you would have had to attack, so the attack created one charge and discharge another, and you only lose the discharge attacks. You are not losing the Endurance Charges, because you would just proc more discharges with multiple power charges. So you are already kinda getting more impactful discharges if you attack within the CD. Also you could try to create simple charges with some other spells, which is odd and kinda unreliable (like using Blade Vortex and Romiras to get a bunch of Power Charges, but after all you only can store so many power charges and you already likely discharged with at least 4 charges, so discharging every 100ms with 4 would require 10 charges to break even and that is a rather unlikely scenario. And it was already possible to discharge with 5 or more, 4 just technically is the minimum you get (2 Power charges from the last discharge hit and the last attack hit and 2 endurance charges from the transformation by Volls). So you would need 10 charges for every discharge to break even, which is highly unlikely. Because all you get is assuming the same aps 2 or 3 hits and a discharge hit. So discharge essentially gets 4 Power Charges from hitting, and 3 Endurance Charges from the last discharge (because the attack cycle before had one attack less), so you end up with 7 charges, instead of 10, which is a 30% damage loss. The next cycle would consist of 3 power charges and 4 endurance charges. And that is only charges generated by strait out attacking a single enemy, AoE is very different, but who cares. One thing that might be possible is to use stuff like Orb of Storms on bosses to make charges I'm not sure, there was no real reason to do it (more to get Elemental Overload if you wanted to). So there might be a few tricks you could do, but in general the issue for me remains that Mjölnir is essentially just discharge and without further nerfs to its discharge usability it will either be OP or not be usable with non-discharge lightning spells and that is kinda sad. | |
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bump
The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard
The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard | |
" No, no, no, let's not buff Mjolner indirectly by buffing another item. See, the problem is that GGG's nerfing Mjolner in the past already made it to where highly expensive discharge builds were the only way to get high tier dps out of a Mjolner setup. Non-discharge Mjolers (such as my tank using Mjolner just so it had clear speed at all) won't be viable like they were pre-2.5 if we don't buff mjolner itself. Buffing Kingsguard would help make discharge better again, but it wouldn't fix other builds AND if mjolner and Kingsgaurd were both buffed, then we'd have another round of Discharge meta, which I am fine with the game not going through again. " Way to make it obvious you know very little about Mjolner builds. As it's already been said, if this patch didn't curb your build's damage by very much, you were accessing very little of Mjolner's potential pre-2.5. The DPS is not "slightly lower" it's 60% lower. That is a hella lot more than "slightly." I logged in after the patch to test my tank and instantly saw that 60% dmg nerf. I can't imagine the clearspeed nerf to discharge builds that are actually trying to use Mjolner as a large damage source. Also, speaking of Discharge, again, can we NOT have Discharge as THE ONLY viable way to use Mjolner? I would like to just use regular spells and not build for charges on top of everything else. |
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I enjoyed playing Mjöner lifebuilds, even after the nerf 2.4 . But now is a very bad build vs invesment. i tryed fight uber Izaro and i died even wit 6.8k life i got 2 shooted befor i could react. I would say the problem is romira's banquet it give us 1 PC if we use an Attack/spell, Mjöner has low attackspeed and you need Muiltistrike und ramira give us only 1PC per 3 attacks. So we have too take a 2. spell too proc with Möjner. I would like too try a Temper build or something differnt. My only problem wit this game is why should i make a Build spending Time on it and then they nerf it. So if i do a Inq Templer Mjöner and GGG decide too nerf inq. Whats the point in this game if everything can get nerft till it become useless.
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" Well i would not consider your posts troll regarding Mjölner but you are very uninformed and havent ever played a Mjölner discharge build (this is obvious from your posts even if you wouldnt have directly state that). Therefore you give very uninformed or false responses regarding this topic. " " This is flat out wrong. Its straight 60% damage nerf like presented in the numbers and I can confirm this with personal experience as i have played one mjolner build to lvl 100 and multiple other variations. I tried them out in 2.5 and its a straight 60% damage nerf. " No it doesnt work this way. You pretty much discharge at the same amount of charges you did pre 2.5 this is because the additional spells which were triggered also caused romiras to create more charges. Those charges are gone therefore again its a straight 60% damage nerf. " Mjölner wasnt OP in 2.4 to begin with assuming you focusing your balance on leagues and not standard with legacy items/flasks. The build was just extremely expensive and therefore had a weak price/performance ratio. And at the point of 2.5 Mjölner is utter garbage and useless - we might aswell do a fladeflurry voidheart binos/deathshand build with a fraction of the price and facepwnz the whole game. Last edited by zzang on Dec 9, 2016, 8:56:05 AM
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" Well nobody gives any facts. Saying my dps is worse isn't actually helping. Because they might not have thought that it even affects discharge, because they underestimated the ability to generate charges. I did have Mjölnir in Talisman and in Perandus, I wasn't able to get Volls for a Discharger in Talisman and I didn't bothered and just sold it quickly in Perandus. I did try using it with Lightning Spells in Talisman but it was just terrible. " It can't be just that, because this means you get 60% less charges, which is not true or you would have had to always have full charges for each discharge, which is highly unlikely, because Mjölnir Builds have no access to Volls Protector, so they can't generate huge amounts of Power Charges within 0,1s. In the old Situation during a 1 second intervall you made 10 Attacks and 10 Discharges. Each Discharge was with 2 Endurance and 2 Power Charges at minimum in a single target environment. Now you might get 8 Attacks and 4 Discharges (because my assumption before might be odd, because you shouldn't waste any CD, because you essentially have to hit immidiatly after the 250ms are up). So if you do just that you get 3 Endurance and 3 Power Charges. So over the 1 second you discharge a total of 24 Charges while you did discharge 40 before. That is only 40% less, not 60 (if you could keep 10 hits, without wasting CD it would be 30% less). " This calculation simply would assume that discharge is always triggered with the same amount of charges, however a lower CD allows you to get more charges in between unless you were full with 0,1, which is highly unlikely in non-AoE situtions, because Romiras only generates one charge per Attack, not one per hit. So again you can easily generate charges in between, but hardly enough to be constantly full, not with an 0,1sec intervall. It is a 60% nerf for any skill that is not Discharge, but Mjölnir was crap without discharge basically since forever. But Discharge damage isn't based on the amount of discharges but the amount of charges. If you Discharge every 0,1 seconds you can technically deal less damage than if you discharge every 0,5 seconds, because the first discharge might happen with 1 charge, while the later happens with 8. For every other spell this would be true, for Discharge it isn't unless you are discharging with a constant number, but I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to get more charges for each discharge unless you are at full charges. And that is not something you need experience with, that is just a bit of math. " Like I said the only way to be at 60% is if you always were at full charges. And this is hardly possible. I'm also a bit confident that you at least wanted ConC in there so you would only use one additional spell, because you would need to generate 70% more charges with that one additional spell. But even then I can't see how you would reach full charges, that is essentially one charge more and basically works the same now. And honestly there are even easy ways to generate tons of Power Charges, it is something you wouldn't have to do before, but you can easily do it now (and you should have before). Just put down an Orb of Storm, not much but free power charges which hardly mattered with 0,1s but make a big difference with 0,25s " My concern was that Mjölnir was total garbage forever. Have you ever tried using just Mjölnir + Rares. No other unique. It was terrible. And I'm concerned that all you want to do is push it back in this position. I would like to use Mjölnir for actual lightning spells. Because once I had one (which was 2.0 directly after the nerf to 30% proc rate) it was terrible. I had no Volls, and I could have gotten Romiras, but I thought it might be cool to trigger some Arcs or Sparks etc. but it wasn't. And honestly I don't feel there should be just another Discharge proc tool and that's what Mjönir is, it is essentially indifferent to Cospris and Cospris was usable with Cold Spells not sure if it still is with the changes, but if you used Cospris with Cold Spells putting the CD from 100ms to 250ms is a straight 60% damage nerf, while you can compensate discharge by just discharging with more charges. Discharge essentially forces those items to be terrible and wth Cospris there should never be a reason to use Mjölnir, because it is just straight out worse. Cospris works with Blade Flurry, Cospris works with Crit, Cospris gives additonal damage. Technically you can do a CoC Cospris or CwC cospris that procs even more spells, you can't do that with Mjölnir. So it needs a new direction, otherwise it can't be as good as Cospris, just because it is not based on crit and not a sword. And if you buff it massively you know what happens, it would just be better than Cospris and another item is entirely useless. | |
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Really doubt they will talk lol
Dys an sohm
Rohs an kyn Sahl djahs afah Mah morn narr |
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Attacks that can be used with maces but not swords:
Earthquake Glacial Hammer Ground Slam Sunder Attacks that can be used with swords but not maces: Blade Flurry Lacerate Puncture Reave Viper Strike Whirling Blades Cleave Considering how both sets have something that can basically clear the whole screen with the right setups, it seems unlikely that we'll see an attack-specific option to rebalance Mjolner. Though I find the numbers of charges are a bit off depending on the setup with Romira's. Using Static Strike or Lightning Strike with multistrike along with Orb of Storms I easily had 3 charges (my max on my Pillar juggernaut which I just slapped Mjolner on to screw around with) every single time I had Discharge up. It was particularly amusing to get a few hits in with Static Strike then walk through the rest of the pack and have the SS charges go off and Discharge going off with them. Amusing but not very effective on only 3 power charges, at least with my setup which I would hope is not comparable to actual Mjolner builds. If I also had Voll's Devotion to go along then it'd fare much better on my Juggernaut due to 9 endurance charges. Still a random chance to go to max, but when I've used Enduring Cry and then got the Discharge it was much more noticeable. |
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" Yeah they don't tend to talk about their balance changes like this. It's a shame, really. I've really lost faith in GGG and while I've been a fairly hefty supporter of their game, I don't know if I can justify future support anymore. I tried coming up with an alternative build to my LL Mjolner the other day that would be interesting to me to play and I just can't come up with anything I would enjoy equally or more. It was the perfect build... required a lot of investment, a good amount of game knowledge, didn't rely on cheesy broken mechanics, had reasonable clear speed. I've played over 2000 hours of LL Mjolner and did not want to stop. The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard Last edited by tackle70 on Dec 9, 2016, 2:44:39 PM
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The real problem here is that after the 2.4 nerf, the number of mjölner build users have been steadily declining and now there isn't much people left. We don't have the numbers to make something really important in an attempt to know why gg nerfed our builds, so we're basically left without options other than wait & pray
Pls ggg, don't make me loose the little faith i still have in this game T_T |
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