[2.4] Lioneye's watch LLD Dual Wield Tempestous Steel

THANKS. WOOO HOOO.

Damn, thanks for the math. I do want to note that I used lacerate over blade flurry as flurry would realistically get one or two hits before the enemy can get away, and lacerate had more damage in a single hit.

Lacerate also doesn't lock you in place as much as flurry does and overall feels better to use in LLD. I'd really only use flurry for vagan daggers that have higher speed.

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A222 wrote:

Damn, thanks for the math. I do want to note that I used lacerate over blade flurry as flurry would realistically get one or two hits before the enemy can get away, and lacerate had more damage in a single hit.

Lacerate also doesn't lock you in place as much as flurry does and overall feels better to use in LLD. I'd really only use flurry for vagan daggers that have higher speed.

This. Blade flurry is crazy clunky in LLD (even with high attack speed rares). It will be only good vs other melees maybe? Even with small ping you will never catch a good bower with it.

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RunawayFixer wrote:

Another layer of complexity: direct comparison between vagan and tempestuous is pretty hard since they require different setups imo :p

As a simplification, using the setup of the OP (gear+links), ignoring crits, ignoring the tree, ignoring the opponents armour, ignoring the equal multipliers (like pdps support, attack speed from gear/tree, ...) gives:

A) = tempestuous
B) = vagan dagger

Flat physical damage before multipliers:
A) 29-60 + 6-9 + 4-10 + 3-8 + 5-15 + 6-9 = 53-111 = 82 => ... *0.5 = 41 (phys to lightning)
B) 50-129 + 6-9 + 4-10 + 3-8 + 5-15 + 6-9 = 74-180 = 127 => ...*0.5 = 63.5

Attack speed before multipliers:
A) 1.35
B) 1.67

Added fire damage:
A) 30% vs 45% resists
B) 0% vs 75% resists

Added cold damage:
A) 26% vs 45% resists
B) 26% vs 75% resists

Added lightning damage:
A) 50% + 12% + 30% = 92% vs 45% resists
B) 50% + 12% = 62% vs 75% resists

Adding it all together:
A) 41.0 * 1.35 + 82 * 1.35 * 1.42 * (0.3+0.26+0.92) * 0.55 = 55.35 pdps + 127.96 edps = 183.31 dps
B) 63.5 * 1.67 + 127 * 1.67 * 1.42 * (0+0.26+0.62) * 0.25 = 106.05 pdps + 66.26 edps = 172.31 dps


So with the tempestuous steel setup, the tempestuous steels do a tiny bit more damage than a gg vagan weapon. The tempestuous setup can be scaled a lot further with better rolled gear, a dedicated vagan dagger/sword build will probably look completely different and do relatively better with that build. All in all it seems pretty balanced to me. The only thing broken here is blade flurry.

Seems okayish except I think you forgot herald of ash from the calculations? When comparing, the obvious downsides are having low block chance and having to use meginord's because you could be using something like this.
Losing a link like increased critical damage for physical to lightning is quite big too.

Anyways, with a rare weapon with crit roll you will end up with around 50% crit with a bit over 400% crit multi. This means you will hit for like 800-1k on crit with a skill like heavy strike. "Oneshotting" a bower who has lost a few hundred hp from flicker/wb is pretty much the only way to kill bowers.

Now if we consider what would be the absolute best way to build a tempestous build, it would probably be a crit build. With Tempestous setup you will end up with around 32% crit. In the end the numbers look similar but with tempestous you have to hit 3 times to get a lethal hit whereas with vagan rapier you have to hit only twice on average. As a melee you sadly cant kill a fully decked out opponent without 1k crits.

And yeah, I'm aware a222's setup is very budget but I believe the idea was to compare the potential of the two? To summarize or for

tl:dr

It is pretty clear cut that best-in-slot tempestous build would be more squishy (block, belt) and deal lethal damage way less often (low crit%).

Added this thread to that build list thread! Looking forward to compete again next league ^^

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lapiz wrote:

...

And yeah, I'm aware a222's setup is very budget but I believe the idea was to compare the potential of the two? To summarize or for

tl:dr

It is pretty clear cut that best-in-slot tempestous build would be more squishy (block, belt) and deal lethal damage way less often (low crit%).

Just answering to this bit because it answers the rest of your remarks as well.

I had never any intent of doing a full comparison of max dps potential, because that would simply be too much work on my part. Research different trees, research different bis items, add and multiply all relevant stats, ... Just too much work, experimental incremental in game character design is a lot more fun anyhow. It's the journey that matters most to me.

But I did want to get an idea of the relative theoretic performance of these tempestuous steels (and I think that was Rupenus interest as well), so I took the OP's setup and did some basic quick math ignoring anything that would increase my time spent calculating by too much. And I think the result is interesting, these tempestuous steels make some very good entry weapons for lld imo, decent enough with some cheap added physical gear, scalable to far greater heights with more time spent collecting gear.

GG vagan weapons can definitely be scaled further and offer far greater flexibility in gear choices, which imo is a good thing. Uniques shouldn't trump gg rares.

I'm definitely interested in making a similar build as the OP's my first lld build :p

ps: I only have experience with blade flurry at high levels, where it feels just too good compared to the other melee skills. So you can ignore my comments about blade flurry in lld entirely. It will also be interesting if any of the targetted melee skills become better to play again with the weapon range and cone targetting changes.