Feedback and Suggestions - Nothing wrong with Blade Flurry, it's not OP it just doesn't suck like typical melee - Forum

140% global increase damage through poison etc everything is pretty fucking stupid that's why. Dys an sohm Rohs an kyn Sahl djahs afah Mah morn narr	Posted by Coconutdoggy#1805 on Dec 9, 2016, 10:45:59 PM On Probation Quote this Post
" Emphasy wrote: " Snorkle_uk wrote: lacerate does a little more damage than reave down the middle, a fair bit less damage than reave at the sides and overall hits under half the area reave hits... on what planet is that considered a better version of reave? imo its crap compared to reave, it performs worse, it looks worse, it feels worse, it sounds worse, everything about it is inferior apart from the single target and even there the difference is small, in no way enough to make up for the rest of it. I simply based that on the assumption that Lacerate is used and reave wasn't. The AoE isn't that bad. Actually Groundslam has a higher AoE than full stacked Reave and Sweep almost has the same AoE as Reave has with full stacks and that in 360°. And again Lacerate also has a bigger AoE than fully scaled Reave (it has a bit more than Groundslam). So as a comparison: Reave 17 - 31 Sweep 26 Groundslam 35 Lacerate 35+ Not sure about Blade Flurry but the targeting circle reaches as far as Groundslam, however since it is a circle only a small area can be targetted at max range but since you can rotate freely, it is hardly an issue. " in maps like Maze or Crema or whatnot it is VERY easy to loose 8 stacks and be again at not-so-impressive 1). Lacerate does not have this problem, neither does BF. Reave only has 4 Stacks since I think 2.0. 2.4 Changed the base AoE to 17 and the increase per Stack to 20% more, you still end up at 31. You dont use Reave without Vaal Reave, the numbers you are putting up are for a 4 stack Reave, Reave doesnt only have 4 stacks, it has 8 stacks. This is the problem with these convos and balancing the game around the mob mentality. Ive actually played all this stuff, extensively, and Ive played the alternatives like bows and spells, extensively. I have 18 lvl90+ characters, fuzz has 2, you have 1. Whens the last time you played a proper Reave build? An aoe groundslam build? I was playing one 10 days ago. http://plays.tv/video/55d724d4a867c164d9 skip 35 secs into that vid, thats what reave is, it ACTUALLY blows up the entire screen and you dont need to be a slayer to do it, unlike flurry which people say blows yup the screen and in reality blows up a tiny little area, blows it up well, sure, but its nowhere near reave. Neither is g slam, none of those skills. the distance you can keep from mobs with reave makes its survivability miles ahead of those skills, its clear speed is far superior, the amount of actual damage per second you can apply a screen full of mobs far exceeds flurry. Thats what the guy means about losing 8 stacks indoors, its not quite vaal spark bad but like any big aoe skill or stuff like shield charge discharges when you get into lots of small tight spaces reave is taken down to the level other melee skills always exist in. You can instantly stack to 4 with reave, vaal reave is not always charged, so you become a 4 stack build for portions of the play. People who dont like playing fast dont like reave, and thats fine, but dont pretend that flurry is some awesome aoe screen clear super fast skill thats game breaking. Even by melee standards its clear ability is fairly average, and in terms of single target damage its on par with good single target spells providing you spent 10x as much on your gear.	Posted by Snorkle_uk#0761 on Dec 10, 2016, 12:24:28 AM Quote this Post
" I_NO wrote: 140% global increase damage through poison etc everything is pretty fucking stupid that's why. I'm pretty sure Scourge has 70% and I'm not entirely convinced that Deaths Hands 30% more damage as Chaos isn't better and even then Singularity gives a slow and 80%, but since essentially everyone uses Deaths Hand I assume 80% increased damage is worse than 30% Added Chaos Damage so 70% should be as well (although I think Singularity has damage taken, which is even better). And considering that you get the benefit of being able to use Minion Damage on Jewels, reducing the price, anyway I'm not convinced that there is a good reason to replace Deaths Hand with anything that is not Deaths Hand (unless it is a shield for defensive reasons). And if we look at the highest chars in HC that are not Supports or use FB we have One Spectre Summoner Two Blade Flurry Pathfinders One Earthquake Juggernaut One Warchief Chieftain One Rain of Arrows Deadeye And that's all in the Top20, the rest is support and Pizza Sticks (or even some Pizzas without Sticks). On the next pages they are joined by some Essence Drain, one Cycloner etc. But overall in the Top50 Blade Flurry is the most common non Flameblast or Support build together with Essence Drain. And considering what you need to be Top50... well obviously a 5l Cyclone is enough or just use Rain of Arrows. To sum it up: Blade Flurry is fine now, it is likely a bit overrepresented because it is new. And they already mentioned they want to tone down daggers in favor of other, exspecially 1handed weapons. So I don't think it needs any more changes right now, maybe in the future, but not at the current state. It is not a weak skill, but it is far from the worst offender. And one of the big reasons it is so massively used is because it is fun to play and very engaging and that is a good reason for a skill being popular. Last edited by Emphasy#0545 on Dec 10, 2016, 12:45:57 AM	Posted by Emphasy#0545 on Dec 10, 2016, 12:33:21 AM Quote this Post
The 70% effect stacks hence 140% via DW. Dys an sohm Rohs an kyn Sahl djahs afah Mah morn narr	Posted by Coconutdoggy#1805 on Dec 10, 2016, 12:46:17 AM On Probation Quote this Post
" Snorkle_uk wrote: You dont use Reave without Vaal Reave, the numbers you are putting up are for a 4 stack Reave, Reave doesnt only have 4 stacks, it has 8 stacks. This is the problem with these convos and balancing the game around the mob mentality. Ive actually played all this stuff, extensively, and Ive played the alternatives like bows and spells, extensively. I have 18 lvl90+ characters, fuzz has 2, you have 1. Whens the last time you played a proper Reave build? An aoe groundslam build? I was playing one 10 days ago. Thing is, should the game be balanced only around clearspeed "freaks" which are probably a small minority (compared to the global playerbase, yes) ? Because reaves does likeley not feel the same if you are just going full speed, ignoring most drops and just not caring about most monsters as they blow up. I personally dislike doing this, I like to go at a slower pace, enjoy what the game has to offer ( including the graphics / environment for example ), this is also why I don't have more than 2 chars over 90 ( also I might get bored more quickly idk ). Because Reave most likely does not feel the same if you're going "full clearspeed and fuck the rest" mode or not. In which case BF will feel easier to use, it also does not put much pressure on the user as you do not need to hurry to kill everything otherwise you loose AOE. Also I think that Emphasy (and I too) is saying that it had a very good AOE, and now it has a correct AOE instead, which gives it less coverage than a fully stacked reave of course. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Dec 10, 2016, 1:26:37 AM	Posted by Fruz#6137 on Dec 10, 2016, 1:25:52 AM Quote this Post
" Snorkle_uk wrote: " Emphasy wrote: " Snorkle_uk wrote: lacerate does a little more damage than reave down the middle, a fair bit less damage than reave at the sides and overall hits under half the area reave hits... on what planet is that considered a better version of reave? imo its crap compared to reave, it performs worse, it looks worse, it feels worse, it sounds worse, everything about it is inferior apart from the single target and even there the difference is small, in no way enough to make up for the rest of it. I simply based that on the assumption that Lacerate is used and reave wasn't. The AoE isn't that bad. Actually Groundslam has a higher AoE than full stacked Reave and Sweep almost has the same AoE as Reave has with full stacks and that in 360°. And again Lacerate also has a bigger AoE than fully scaled Reave (it has a bit more than Groundslam). So as a comparison: Reave 17 - 31 Sweep 26 Groundslam 35 Lacerate 35+ Not sure about Blade Flurry but the targeting circle reaches as far as Groundslam, however since it is a circle only a small area can be targetted at max range but since you can rotate freely, it is hardly an issue. " in maps like Maze or Crema or whatnot it is VERY easy to loose 8 stacks and be again at not-so-impressive 1). Lacerate does not have this problem, neither does BF. Reave only has 4 Stacks since I think 2.0. 2.4 Changed the base AoE to 17 and the increase per Stack to 20% more, you still end up at 31. You dont use Reave without Vaal Reave, the numbers you are putting up are for a 4 stack Reave, Reave doesnt only have 4 stacks, it has 8 stacks. This is the problem with these convos and balancing the game around the mob mentality. Ive actually played all this stuff, extensively, and Ive played the alternatives like bows and spells, extensively. I have 18 lvl90+ characters, fuzz has 2, you have 1. Whens the last time you played a proper Reave build? An aoe groundslam build? I was playing one 10 days ago. http://plays.tv/video/55d724d4a867c164d9 skip 35 secs into that vid, thats what reave is, it ACTUALLY blows up the entire screen and you dont need to be a slayer to do it, unlike flurry which people say blows yup the screen and in reality blows up a tiny little area, blows it up well, sure, but its nowhere near reave. Neither is g slam, none of those skills. the distance you can keep from mobs with reave makes its survivability miles ahead of those skills, its clear speed is far superior, the amount of actual damage per second you can apply a screen full of mobs far exceeds flurry. Thats what the guy means about losing 8 stacks indoors, its not quite vaal spark bad but like any big aoe skill or stuff like shield charge discharges when you get into lots of small tight spaces reave is taken down to the level other melee skills always exist in. You can instantly stack to 4 with reave, vaal reave is not always charged, so you become a 4 stack build for portions of the play. People who dont like playing fast dont like reave, and thats fine, but dont pretend that flurry is some awesome aoe screen clear super fast skill thats game breaking. Even by melee standards its clear ability is fairly average, and in terms of single target damage its on par with good single target spells providing you spent 10x as much on your gear. i mostly agree with you, im not high level, but in this state I'm asking myself if I should have taken BF, even cyclone seem faster for leveling than bf, you have to stand still and you have a small area coverage. Damage is not bad but it isn't insane at all... I think it was better before the nerf especially on the aoe part... ... nothing	Posted by __Z__#6480 on Dec 10, 2016, 4:02:05 AM Quote this Post
" __Z__ wrote: I think it was better before the nerf especially on the aoe part... That is basically the only thing that changed. And I dont think that you need to stand more in place than compared to using reave, I mean during the leveling process. It depends on your leveling weapon tho, an ele buzzsaw equivelent might be very good for leveling, not sure. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.	Posted by Fruz#6137 on Dec 10, 2016, 4:16:24 AM Quote this Post
" Fruz wrote: The point is ( because .. you know, you're still missing it ) : - Pizza sticks is OP as fuck, we don't need such OP possibilities, like ever, Gear in this case is irrelevant.. And yet FB receives no nerfs. Funny how "OP" FB doesn't get nerfed by GGG but this one does, knowing full well that BF requires more investment. I wonder who's responsible for that, though? I haven't seen any of you posting in threads about FB needing a nerf. Funny how that works. But basically snorkle is saying it better than I am so I should just leave this thread to him. my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes ----- Bug Fixes: People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it. Last edited by Legatus1982#1658 on Dec 10, 2016, 9:34:13 AM	Posted by Legatus1982#1658 on Dec 10, 2016, 9:30:26 AM Quote this Post
" Legatus1982 wrote: And yet FB receives no nerfs. Funny how "OP" FB doesn't get nerfed by GGG but this one does, knowing full well that BF requires more investment. Mate, it's not about what is op, it's about what is perceived as op and what players complain about. 177	Posted by toyotatundra#0800 on Dec 10, 2016, 9:39:18 AM Quote this Post
" Legatus1982 wrote: " Fruz wrote: The point is ( because .. you know, you're still missing it ) : - Pizza sticks is OP as fuck, we don't need such OP possibilities, like ever, Gear in this case is irrelevant.. And yet FB receives no nerfs. Funny how "OP" FB doesn't get nerfed by GGG but this one does, knowing full well that BF requires more investment. I wonder who's responsible for that, though? I haven't seen any of you posting in threads about FB needing a nerf. Funny how that works. But basically snorkle is saying it better than I am so I should just leave this thread to him. No dont worry Flame Blast is retarded OP too and needs a significant world ending nerf just like Bladeflurry. ProbablyGettingNerfed - L100 Occultist Vinktarded - L100 Pathfinder GoogleDiversityHire - L100 Necromancer 3.13 was the pinnacle of PoE. IVYS+1 Gang 4 Life.	Posted by TheAshmaker#5078 on Dec 10, 2016, 9:48:44 AM Quote this Post