PoE Map Drop Season - Understand your Map Pool

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Nephalim wrote:

At least on standard, you should be alch and go T12s. Never chiseling this or any lower tier.

I see this sentence rather often, and a lot of players almost make it seem like it's BAD for the amp pool to chisel maps lower than 12. If you have a steady income of chisels, chisel what you can. It can't hurt your map pool.

I remember discussing map drops in an other thread - where I whined a bit about the drop rate. This other guy, telling me how red maps were raining, told me if it didn't rain red maps, I ws doing something wrong. I told him I chisel-alch-chaos->pack size everything above 10, aiming for >100 IIQ. The response? "Don't chisel lower than 12", like THAT'S why I was struggling.

But he still went on and on about how people can't "manage their map pool", while the only thing he could point out, was me chiseling 11's.

Because of logic.

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Char1983 wrote:

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LSN wrote:

b) how to lessen frustrating and punishing RNG for my customers

They certainly failed there. At least with regards to me.

Well according to my theory (and that is evident) the system cannot spit out plenty of maps throughout the whole season for everyone at any time. If so then maps would lose all value and everybody would just always spam t14/t15 and you could buy them for a chaos or less.


So if I was GGG I would try and picture when it is most important for them to not lose players through bad map drops (economically) and when it is most important for players. Luckily both hit the nail at the very same period of time. So if you take it as given (which it is not, but it makes way too much sense to ignore) that they want to deliver a good picture of their game to everyone at the beginning of the season then it is also given that there must be phases of counter balance.

Your mistake probably was just that you played down your entire high map pool at a certain point where just no maps were dropping instead of putting a stop in and switching to lower maps. For you I created that thread.




Just answer one question please. Are you one of the guys who really enjoy the grind and play 24/7 at the very start of the season and did you do so this season?

Or are you more relaxed about stuff, join in late, play only an hour or few hours a day if at all, enjoy more chatting with guild members and figuring out your build over hardcore grinding maps from the very start on?

I would assume the latter. Maybe you can give genuine information about that.

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Nephalim wrote:

There is some truth scattered in there somewhere.

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T09 = no chisels and only chaos on very good layouts sometimes
T10 = no chisels and only chaos for packsize, magic or rare if you can afford
T11 = ~070%Q+ & 0-1 chisel and usually chaos for packsize, magic or rare if you can afford
T12 = ~080%Q+ & 2 chisels & packsize
T13 = ~090%Q+ & 4 chisels & packsize & maybe one sacrifice piece sometimes if you can afford
T14 = ~100%Q+ & 4 chisels & packsize & 1-2 sacrifice pieces if you can afford
T15 = ~110%Q+ & 4 chisels & packsize & 1-3 sacrifice pieces if you can afford

At least on standard, you should be alch and go T12s. Never chiseling this or any lower tier.

I have tried that as well but I have had bad results with that. Right now I am even using 1 chisel on all T11 maps (but would not advise that necessarily). Chisels are quita cheap these days in standard. But I guess it doesn't make much difference so I would assume both is right refering to T12.

Probably you are right mathematically to either full chisel or not at all. Then I would still argue that the lower cap could either be T13 or T12 to do so (full chisel) and not necessarily needs to be T13 (more than T12 tho).

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Phrazz wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

At least on standard, you should be alch and go T12s. Never chiseling this or any lower tier.

I see this sentence rather often, and a lot of players almost make it seem like it's BAD for the amp pool to chisel maps lower than 12. If you have a steady income of chisels, chisel what you can. It can't hurt your map pool.

I remember discussing map drops in an other thread - where I whined a bit about the drop rate. This other guy, telling me how red maps were raining, told me if it didn't rain red maps, I ws doing something wrong. I told him I chisel-alch-chaos->pack size everything above 10, aiming for >100 IIQ. The response? "Don't chisel lower than 12", like THAT'S why I was struggling.

But he still went on and on about how people can't "manage their map pool", while the only thing he could point out, was me chiseling 11's.

Because of logic.

If you are chiseling t11s then you are doing it wrong.
The question to chisel a map or not solely depends on the ratio of cost of the map to chisels.
If a 4 chisels costs 66% of much as the map itself, why just not buy a second map?

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Nephalim wrote:

If you are chiseling t11s then you are doing it wrong.
The question to chisel a map or not solely depends on the ratio of cost of the map to chisels.
If a 4 chisels costs 66% of much as the map itself, why just not buy a second map?

Well, I'm playing SSF, so I'm doing the whole game wrong. I don't speak based on the all-mighty economy. I speak based on maps gained per map run. So if I chisel 11's and 12's to build up my own pool, you can't say that it's a wrong move if the goal is for ME to FIND more maps. And EVEN if I chisel, alch, chaos->pack size+100+ IIQ, I can OFTEN go 8, 9, 10 maps without seeing an upgrade. That's pain.

If the answer is "buy everything", 200/400 IIQ/IIR + Dried Lake 24/7 would do the trick. But I want to feel and experience my own progression. But now I'm entering an other discussion, so I'll shut up.

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Phrazz wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

If you are chiseling t11s then you are doing it wrong.
The question to chisel a map or not solely depends on the ratio of cost of the map to chisels.
If a 4 chisels costs 66% of much as the map itself, why just not buy a second map?

Well, I'm playing SSF, so I'm doing the whole game wrong. I don't speak based on the all-mighty economy. I speak based on maps gained per map run. So if I chisel 11's and 12's to build up my own pool, you can't say that it's a wrong move if the goal is for ME to FIND more maps. And EVEN if I chisel, alch, chaos->pack size+100+ IIQ, I can OFTEN go 8, 9, 10 maps without seeing an upgrade. That's pain.

If the answer is "buy everything", 200/400 IIQ/IIR + Dried Lake 24/7 would do the trick. But I want to feel and experience my own progression. But now I'm entering an other discussion, so I'll shut up.

Most advice can only be given with the baseline that you are not SSF so if it works for you, don't stop.

I think people think GGG has a more complicated system then what's supposedly already in the game. Theses are the same people that took them 2 years after they won game of the year to fix desync, and just now added a form of a end game system after 4 years.

If you roll your maps decently well and progress up the map tiers, upon average you'll slowly move up.

Some people get lucky and sell their extra maps to someone else.

Some people get unlucky and would have to buy maps from the lucky people.

If you do not trade at all or insist on only progressing through your map without outside help when you are unlucky, you'll have a bad time.

The map altas still relies on minor map trading.

Well it is legitimate to believe it is complete bullshit what I write here about phases and say its all random from the beginning to the end and no other factors go in.


I don't want to believe that for the reasons I stated.




@Arlius I recognized that you find at least 1-2 of these gavels or similar per map. For people who are not super rich it is very legitimate to just pick them up, make chisels out of them and then even chisel once or twice T10/T11 to help the map pool. You will make them back from these gavels anyway. For speed grinders with enough wealth who cannot lose any time it is surely better to leave them on the floor and only chisel T13+.

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LSN wrote:

This is not about anecdotal evidence

Thanks for the laughs

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LSN wrote:

Well according to my theory (and that is evident) the system cannot spit out plenty of maps throughout the whole season for everyone at any time. If so then maps would lose all value and everybody would just always spam t14/t15 and you could buy them for a chaos or less.

So? Where would be the problem with that? I would start crafting my Atlas to exactly what I want it to be rather than go with the "have to unlock everything" approach. Which is pretty much the only useful approach due to map starvation.

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LSN wrote:

Your mistake probably was just that you played down your entire high map pool at a certain point where just no maps were dropping instead of putting a stop in and switching to lower maps. For you I created that thread.

Thank you so much. My map pool on Standard:

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LSN wrote:

Just answer one question please. Are you one of the guys who really enjoy the grind and play 24/7 at the very start of the season and did you do so this season?

Or are you more relaxed about stuff, join in late, play only an hour or few hours a day if at all, enjoy more chatting with guild members and figuring out your build over hardcore grinding maps from the very start on?

If that was directed to me: I do have a level 15 or so character on ESC and a level 61 character on EHC. I went to EHC because there was no consistent challenge to be found on Standard.

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LSN wrote:

I have tried that as well but I have had bad results with that. Right now I am even using 1 chisel on all T11 maps (but would not advise that necessarily). Chisels are quita cheap these days in standard. But I guess it doesn't make much difference so I would assume both is right refering to T12.

T12 map: 4 Chaos.
Chisel: about 0.25 Chaos.

4 Chisels get 20% Quality which is a 20% increase in map drops, assuming white maps. It is less for a 60% IIQ map because at 60% IIQ, an additional 20% Quality will increase the total item quantity from 160% to 180% (a 12.5% increase). Thus, full chiseling a map is (assuming you run it yellow) worth about 0.125x the amount the map is worth, assuming you only care about map drops. Let's say 0.2x because even when it is yellow already, you value your time and you have benefits from more drops as well.

With that calculation, chiseling makes sense for maps that are worth more than (price of 4 chisels)/0.2 = 1c/0.2 = 5 Chaos. And doesn't make a lot of sense for T12 maps. Definitely not in terms of map drops.

Why are you complaining about your map RNG if everything is fine? I thought you have lost your whole map pool from what you wrote.

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Char1983 wrote:

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LSN wrote:

b) how to lessen frustrating and punishing RNG for my customers

They certainly failed there. At least with regards to me.

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Char1983 wrote:

[...]
Honestly, I am not sure if they are constantly adjusting map drops or not, but they should just give us content to play. It sucks. I moved to Essence Hardcore recently to find something useful to do, where I will probably RIP soon.
[...]

What are you talking about concerning the chisels and t12 maps for 4c. I just sold loads of extra excavation maps last week for 4c and they sold quickly.

Residence: starts 5c http://poe.trade/search/isobagahumesik
Ivory Temple: starts 5c http://poe.trade/search/horahoriwotadi
Estuary: starts 7c http://poe.trade/search/kasowikenitako
Plateau: one single map for 4c in rest starts at 5c http://poe.trade/search/anohihorimados
Crema: 5c http://poe.trade/search/ekoyarurunitey
Necropolis: 5c http://poe.trade/search/haromgonikanon
Vault: 6c 2 maps, then starts at 7c http://poe.trade/search/ainiakakitaria


It is exactly as I said following your math which I didn't check in detail. Worth chiseling starts somewhere between T12 and T13 depending on your playstyle.

If you grab every gavel and use it you can even start lower without doing a major mistake, especially when you are in denial of buying maps and your RNG needs help. Your calculation doesn't take increased earnings through increased map drops into account that you achieve on average by using chisels which you can sell or play chiseled/unchiseled for extra profit.




@ others: I don't care about what you believe or not. There is no evidence to be brought from either side at this point. Take notice that games constantly make use of such mechanics for player gratification and balance.
- Look at systematic introduction of legacy items: First introduced strong then weakened to create special reward for activity during a point of time.
- Check atziri drops and how they lowered the dropchance of gloves and as well hopes.



What I do here is to introduce you to the possibility that similar mechanics might take place concerning the map drops each season. And I know that this is very politically incorrect as acknowledging that does destroy your faith into the game and people behind. Take it or leave it!