[outdated] King of the Forest (Crit version)

"

ggsbv wrote:

Alright so, have tried all the end game content multiple times. Killed hydra, minotaur and phoenix enough times to do 11 Shaper sets. Studied the fight, and was prepared to die multiple times before being able to beat him.

After 10 Shaper sets, I can say that I do NOT like his build for killing shaper. No matter how well I play, if I don't dps him down quick enough, the fight becomes absolutely impossible. At phase three, when the second shaper appears, you have to hope for luck if you want to be able to kill him. Unless the + barrage projectiles helm increases dps by a great margin, as well as chaos jewellery, I do not think this build is a Deathless Shaper kill build. It just doesn't work that way. You have to focus 100%, dodge absolutely everything and make NO mistakes and also hope for a bit of luck because it becomes too chaotic.

Not sure if they buffed Shaper since OP posted vids, but believe me I do not lack on skill (I can kill hydra deathless easily, with difficult map mods, even though that fight is difficult), and I really struggled to kill Shaper, and was only actually able to kill him on 2 of my 11 sets. Like I said, I was prepared to lose 3-4 sets as I warm up, but the fight requires luck to do deathless, and if you die once or twice, it becomes increasingly impossible to kill him because those black hole bombs take up a lot of the battlefield and doesn't allow you to kite and move around as you can in the first fight.

This build is amazing for mapping, but is not a good boss killer. For those considering this build for HC, think about it long and hard because you are not going to be doing Shaper, Hydra, Chimera or Uber Atziri with this build. You make one SMALL mistake and you're dead.

For mapping this build is amazing, fast safe clear, kills map bosses in split seconds and is fun to play.

tldr, if you have spent as much exa as I have on the gear for this build, and struggle to kill Shaper, then perhaps this build's purpose is a mapper first and foremost.

I am not yet sure if I am going to continue playing the build in order to get 2x Chaos% rings as well as +barrage projectiles Devoto's, and retry Shaper, or just quit the league for now. I am pretty demoralised as I thought I would be able to safely farm Shaper. Oh well...

these are exactly my thoughts. This is my first big league and I wanted to kill him so bad. I've farmed a lot of currency through the league, also on the other character, so I was actually buying shaper sets from people and running them, but so far bricked them all. Got past 2nd phase only once because as you wrote - if I ever do a single mistake, it's nearly impossible to get back to the run and finish it.

"

PlainLazy wrote:

these are exactly my thoughts. This is my first big league and I wanted to kill him so bad. I've farmed a lot of currency through the league, also on the other character, so I was actually buying shaper sets from people and running them, but so far bricked them all. Got past 2nd phase only once because as you wrote - if I ever do a single mistake, it's nearly impossible to get back to the run and finish it.

glad you share my sentiments. I would admit it if I think I played badly, but to be completely honest, I was completely on par with OP's videos dodging and movements, and I couldn't do it. From what I can see, there are a few differences.

- In OP's video, he doesn't seem to run into a few issues that I ran into every single run. One of them being the second Shaper in phase three, beaming you or shooting balls from off-screen and killing you. This is IMPOSSIBLE to dodge if he throws secondary balls while the real shaper is also beaming and/or throwing his balls. There is just too much shit on screen for a human being to be able to successfully dodge it all, and one of those balls hit you and you're dead, and then those slowly floating white balls explode on your corpse, meaning you won't be able to use that area for kiting.

- In OP's video, he doesn't seem to run into that issue where those slowly floating white black hole balls follow you into Zana's bubble while Shaper performs his attack. If you try and kite the ball inside the bubble, sometimes the purple balls from Shaper hit you even though you're inside the bubble. If you don't kite it, you die anyway and then there's a hole in the middle of the arena - when you port back it is fucking difficult to kite around.

- In OP's video, he doesn't seem to have any moments where Shaper is throwing his balls while he is being chased by two white black hole balls forcing him to activate the balls in places ruin his kiting space. This happened to me plenty of times, and the two times I killed Shaper successfully was because this scenario didn't happen (I classify that as luck).

- I big issue for me is when you need to protect Zana from the ads. Certain ads are easy but other ads can be very very difficult to kill with this build. If you watch other builds kill Shaper, Zana doesn't die whatsoever because the build kills the ads too quickly for them to do damage. Zana died so often to me no matter what I did. Yeah, I was always sure to keep up my frenzy charges etc - believe me I am very used to this build and I understand how to play it well...

The above reasons are some that I can think of off the top of my head. Long story short, the Shaper fight is extremely difficult. Maybe %chaosdmg rings as well as +barrage projectiles Devoto's can change that, but it is a dying shame that those are required to be able to kill Shaper. I have a 40% barrage dmg Devoto's, which I assume shouldn't be too much of a blow to my dmg...

WTS ALL ITEMS USED FOR 19EX TOTAL

Could you please post your gears in order to allow other players to see with what kind of stuff you do what you said you do and also what you said you can't do.

The difference of equipment and setups can help other players.

Thx

"

Dim_de_Lyon wrote:

Could you please post your gears in order to allow other players to see with what kind of stuff you do what you said you do and also what you said you can't do.

The difference of equipment and setups can help other players.

Thx

if you're talking to me, just check out my character on my profile - it should be public. Otherwise I will post my gear tomorrow (its late here).

btw I love mapping with this build

"

ggsbv wrote:

"

PlainLazy wrote:

these are exactly my thoughts. This is my first big league and I wanted to kill him so bad. I've farmed a lot of currency through the league, also on the other character, so I was actually buying shaper sets from people and running them, but so far bricked them all. Got past 2nd phase only once because as you wrote - if I ever do a single mistake, it's nearly impossible to get back to the run and finish it.

glad you share my sentiments. I would admit it if I think I played badly, but to be completely honest, I was completely on par with OP's videos dodging and movements, and I couldn't do it. From what I can see, there are a few differences.

- In OP's video, he doesn't seem to run into a few issues that I ran into every single run. One of them being the second Shaper in phase three, beaming you or shooting balls from off-screen and killing you. This is IMPOSSIBLE to dodge if he throws secondary balls while the real shaper is also beaming and/or throwing his balls. There is just too much shit on screen for a human being to be able to successfully dodge it all, and one of those balls hit you and you're dead, and then those slowly floating white balls explode on your corpse, meaning you won't be able to use that area for kiting.

- In OP's video, he doesn't seem to run into that issue where those slowly floating white black hole balls follow you into Zana's bubble while Shaper performs his attack. If you try and kite the ball inside the bubble, sometimes the purple balls from Shaper hit you even though you're inside the bubble. If you don't kite it, you die anyway and then there's a hole in the middle of the arena - when you port back it is fucking difficult to kite around.

- In OP's video, he doesn't seem to have any moments where Shaper is throwing his balls while he is being chased by two white black hole balls forcing him to activate the balls in places ruin his kiting space. This happened to me plenty of times, and the two times I killed Shaper successfully was because this scenario didn't happen (I classify that as luck).

- I big issue for me is when you need to protect Zana from the ads. Certain ads are easy but other ads can be very very difficult to kill with this build. If you watch other builds kill Shaper, Zana doesn't die whatsoever because the build kills the ads too quickly for them to do damage. Zana died so often to me no matter what I did. Yeah, I was always sure to keep up my frenzy charges etc - believe me I am very used to this build and I understand how to play it well...

The above reasons are some that I can think of off the top of my head. Long story short, the Shaper fight is extremely difficult. Maybe %chaosdmg rings as well as +barrage projectiles Devoto's can change that, but it is a dying shame that those are required to be able to kill Shaper. I have a 40% barrage dmg Devoto's, which I assume shouldn't be too much of a blow to my dmg...

First thing, did you use point blank and wither totem ? As OP shown with inferior gear, point blank is needed for shaper, check out progression thread.

I haven't tried shaper with KotF, but I agree that this build doesn't meant for shaper farming, but should able to do it reliable after familiarisation, somewhere 50% success rate to 80%, while maybe just 20% deathless. I didn't do because my atlas is shaped and all optimised layout so I didn't farm guardian fragment, I will buy and do tomorrow, hopefully I can do a video as well (never done it, not sure my PC capable of not, would appreciate if someone give recommendation on video software)

I have good rares with 2 chaos ring, no Envy amulet / head enchantment / vul glove. The multiple ball/beam situation you met, I did it on late a in atlas patch and it was fine with good gameplay (slow movement speed build with 6k es + flamedash, so KotF sure have no problem) hopefully I can share the result within 48 hours.

PS: I think I will use OBS, seems good.

been playing for a bit now on this build and ready to throw some more money at it, am currently at level 87 using this gear

was wondering what would be the best use of money to get better performance...curse gloves? 21/20 added chaos? dying sun? or maybe theres a certain piece of my gear that isnt that good that i could maybe find better for

have probably around 10ex or so to spend tops

You guys think I can run Shaper with my current setup? Also would it be worth to sell my Snakebites to get new ones with available links for Totem + Wither?

Thanks!

"

ggsbv wrote:

Alright so, have tried all the end game content multiple times. Killed hydra, minotaur and phoenix enough times to do 11 Shaper sets. Studied the fight, and was prepared to die multiple times before being able to beat him.

After 10 Shaper sets, I can say that I do NOT like his build for killing shaper. No matter how well I play, if I don't dps him down quick enough, the fight becomes absolutely impossible. At phase three, when the second shaper appears, you have to hope for luck if you want to be able to kill him. Unless the + barrage projectiles helm increases dps by a great margin, as well as chaos jewellery, I do not think this build is a Deathless Shaper kill build. It just doesn't work that way. You have to focus 100%, dodge absolutely everything and make NO mistakes and also hope for a bit of luck because it becomes too chaotic.

Not sure if they buffed Shaper since OP posted vids, but believe me I do not lack on skill (I can kill hydra deathless easily, with difficult map mods, even though that fight is difficult), and I really struggled to kill Shaper, and was only actually able to kill him on 2 of my 11 sets. Like I said, I was prepared to lose 3-4 sets as I warm up, but the fight requires luck to do deathless, and if you die once or twice, it becomes increasingly impossible to kill him because those black hole bombs take up a lot of the battlefield and doesn't allow you to kite and move around as you can in the first fight.

This build is amazing for mapping, but is not a good boss killer. For those considering this build for HC, think about it long and hard because you are not going to be doing Shaper, Hydra, Chimera or Uber Atziri with this build. You make one SMALL mistake and you're dead.

For mapping this build is amazing, fast safe clear, kills map bosses in split seconds and is fun to play.

tldr, if you have spent as much exa as I have on the gear for this build, and struggle to kill Shaper, then perhaps this build's purpose is a mapper first and foremost.

I am not yet sure if I am going to continue playing the build in order to get 2x Chaos% rings as well as +barrage projectiles Devoto's, and retry Shaper, or just quit the league for now. I am pretty demoralised as I thought I would be able to safely farm Shaper. Oh well...

Your post is almost 1:1 the same as mine when I killed Shaper (took me only 2 sets total though).

I did have the +2 Barrage helm (but no chaos jewelry) and I was able to kill him in phase 3 (as in get him to cull range and finish with lightning arrow) just as the clone spawned, but yes, everything is exactly as you say. If you don't burst him, the encounter overwhelms you and that's it; but I believe this is by design. The entire encounter is designed to be a DPS check.

I don't agree that surviving on it is hard in any way at all. You can take a beam to the face and walk out of it alive, you can walk a bit through the pools and not die, etc. The only thing that is a straight up one shot are the gold orbs, and they are straight up one shots for any build. To win that encounter you need to have enough DPS to kill portal spawns WITHOUT using flasks, and then simply line up all your burst and kill him in 1 or maximum 2 beam casts. I fully believe it's possible to consistently, deathlessly pull this off - it's just a matter of practice and consistency. The clone in last phase is not an issue if you kill Shaper before he spawns; all of the issues you describe simply won't occur if you kill him in 1-2 beam casts. It's great that you can survive on Hydra, but this fight isn't about dodging - it's about aligning all the stars and executing the bursts properly each and every time, and having enough gear to come out of add phase with flask charges (you can use flasks on it, but you absolutely need to come out with them up).

I actually liked learning and doing the encounter because of this - it's the only fight in the game that isn't just about "walk out of things to not get one shot", it felt more like a raid boss that you had to optimize your cooldowns/resources for burst phases (flask charges, Wither casts, etc). Now that I mention it, Wither usage is super important as well - you want to have as much Wither stacked as possible when you get a burst window (read: when Shaper casts beam). But I'm going off topic with fight strategy at this point... All I wanted to say is that, the 'requirement' for the fight to be short is exactly how you do it cleanly. If you look at the OPs videos, he kills him before the clone does anything. That's the strat, and of course everything goes wrong for you if you don't pull that off. Your decision making as a 'damage dealer' is whats put to the test - not your survival skills. It's that, and your gear/builds damage output.

I don't think you should be demoralized by not being able to farm Shaper. Like, not to be rude, but if you wanted a boss farming build, then a bow build is pretty obviously not going to be the best option. This build CAN do bosses and Shaper (just as advertised), but to do them COMFORTABLY you want a build that is specifically tailored for that purpose, which this build (and the entire archetype of bow characters) is not.

Personally I don't even enjoy boss farming in this game. Running maps is the fun, imo, and this build has the most satisfying mapping experience I've ever had. I did each boss once, and that is more than enough - I'll focus on doing things that are actually fun. There's no builds in the game that excel at everything at the same time - most of the boss killing builds are actually fairly slow at clearing, for example. I clear a lot faster than Blade Flurry characters, that's for sure.

Besides, the only way to make boss farming actually profitable is to sell portals to people needing challenges, and imo this is just tedious, annoying and frankly boring. Boss running nets you barely any XP so currency is the only real incentive to do it, and drops aren't going to be enough to make it worthwhile to solo run. Spending half my time on /trade 820 and boosting is not how I want to play this game - I had a Blade Vortex char in Essence and I fucking hated it. If boss killing is not your thing, if you don't feel satisfied by it, then just don't do it - one of the beauties of this game is that you can customize not only your character, but your environments too.

I do agree that this seems to be a weak choice for hardcore, though.

P.S.
Also, from watching streams and talking to people in game, I can say that "recovering on Shaper is basically impossible" is the general consensus, no matter what build people play. The fight is DESIGNED to punish you extremely hard for dying.

I won't quote that wall of text, but as for a response - yes and no to what you're saying. OP's videos showcase that Shaper runs are or are meant to be easy, right? He does it in 6 minutes geared properly and still DOES it with a crude bow. Meanwhile I hold gear for which I have problems to think of upgrades and still can't even get past round 2.

It is obviously not build's fault, since everyone else is doing it but me, but showcasing it that way is somewhat misleading. I too got demoralized because Shaper was like my personal achievement more than league's challenge (it is my first big league and I wanted to run all the content) and the hype from seeing it being destroyed in 6 minutes quickly slammed me in a face so hard with reality. Reality that I can't even properly understand, 'cause I don't really think I'm that bad of a player (been competetive a lot) and that floating guy in a dress just makes me his bitch over and over again.

However, as a little summary to my total experience with this build so far.
Got 92 with it, hit 6k+life, ran every map up until tier 15 (guardians not done yet, cause I prefer selling those maps honestly - nothing cool about them) and it was absolute pleasure to do so. This build is an excellent map and uber lab farmer and, with some more experience, atziri's as well I believe. It's also really satisfying to upgrade gear, as from a budget version (that also works!) there are dozens of little upgrades that really make a difference. Therefore developing this character is a joy already at a stage of it's building and upgrading piece by piece. Overall I would definitely recommend to try this build. I'm nearly done with this league but running maps and ubers still give me so much fun I often do so.