Path of Exile 2.4.0: Atlas of Worlds Patch Notes

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Demonoz wrote:

So in otherwords Self Cast does NOT get 35% Less?

Yup

Well I must say the balance seems good overall, though the nerf's all around to jugg Coc are excessive. GGG does often create new build possibilities with buffs only to later nerf every single aspect of said build. They nerf the triggered discharge damage, the Coc spell cool down, limited the spells that can trigger at one time, which was all fine. THEN they ripped jugg to shreds and made it only 30% chance to go to max end charges? Dumb. Dumb dumb. Jugg went from useless, to too strong, to useless again.

Why don't they learn to jut dial things back slightly instead of saying, "no more Jugg Coc for anyone"...

Literally changing the cool down to .5sec on COC was enough of a nerf alone. That's all that was needed. The rest is just extra nails in the coffin.

But I am glad to see they are adding T values on PVP. It's not a lot of effort for a big return IMO. It helps the PVP community out a lot!

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they're quite viable such as icecrash, dominating blow

dominating blow viable
dominating blow viable
dominating blow viable







As a melee player I feel insulted of what GGG is throwing at us.
IT IS A BUFF. BOIS.

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Sure_K4y wrote:

This is the exact same thing that is already stated in these patch notes here. Your interpretations are wishful thinking. The Cast on Crit gem itself has a 500ms cooldown, and triggers only one spell at a time, so even if you link a million spell gems to it, you only get 2 procs per second. Or am I on the wrong train now?

For me, that statement on reddit and here in the patch notes sound different.
And just to be clear, i am not a fan of CoC, so wishful thinking is not my issue...

If i should rephrase how i understand that statement on reddit (which i will not post
again plodd :P ) :

CoC has a cooldown of 500ms per spell.
Meaning, with high enough attack speed and crit chance, you can get 6 casts per second with 3 spells linked to CoC, or 4 with two.

That would be more than 2 procs per second.

And i'm not really sure if those 6 procs per second are realistic, let alone viable in end game content.
It'd be still nerfed a lot ( maybe too much, but i'm not one to argue about that )

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Sure_K4y wrote:

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thurmack wrote:

I realize there's a lot of BS floating around this thread, but I think your challenge about the math is inaccurate. The people running CoC already crit maybe 10+ times per second (proc'ing maybe 20-30 spells). Of course they can crit twice, and get two procs per second - they're upset because this is a considerable reduction for them. Bex confirmed that each spell has its own 500ms cooldown so you can still, for example, trigger up to 8 spells per second (with no dmg supports) on a 6L. This isn't terrible. I'm just noting that your criticism about people being ignorant of the 100% proc rate is off-base; lots of people see that, and have accurately noted that it will not affect them practically in any way since they already proc way more than twice a second. Twice a second is a huge decrease.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting CoC was balanced or fair. Just that some of the dissenters are not necessarily bad at math - the math works out to a considerable damage reduction for CoC in most (nearly all) build scenarios.

Fine, I'll do some cursory math based on the information given:

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Cast on Critical Strike now has a 500ms cooldown, and will now only trigger one spell per frame when you critically strike. It now has 100% chance to trigger casts when you critically strike. It now has 20% more spell damage at level 1, tapered up to 39% at level 20 (1% per level). Note that the changes described above in "Triggered Skill Improvements" affect Cast on Critical Strike - spells are chosen in the order of their sockets.

If we assume that you attack 10 times per second, and 7 of these attacks are actually crits, the old cast on crit would trigger about 4-6 times, depending on RNG. For the sake of keeping it simple, let's assume you get 5 procs per second at this point in time.

With the changes in mind, you get 2 procs per second, with a 39% more multiplier. If we do some rounding these 2 procs with the more multiplier equal 2.8 "old" procs in terms of dmg.

If we now compare 5 procs to 2.8 procs the effective nerf is less than 50%, actually it's more like 40% less dmg, and I am not factoring in, that the proc-rate-cap encourages using more dmg specific supports, instead of something else. Let alone that you can tweak existing CoC build to specialize into proccing one particular skill with devastating results.

I'm not sure where you are getting those starting numbers, but they are far lower than most CoC builds.

I am not an expert with CoC so there may be plenty of builds better than mine, but mine should serve as at least a decent baseline. I 'attack' 24 times per second, with 95% crit rate.
That's roughly 16 procs per second, or a little over three times your starting values in your calculations. It should be noted that not all projectiles will hit targets, so this number is high.
The result (omitting misses) is a roughly 80% reduction of dps. If you had a build that did 100k/sec before, and now it does 20k/sec, you might find yourself getting a bit frustrated. That doesn't mean the nerf shouldn't happen, just that it is reasonable for CoC players to be disappointed. It would be reasonable to be disappointed even with a 50% decrease in damage output. That's a big chunk for any player. Being disappointed, however, does not necessarily equate to being right (or entitled).

I don't disagree that the nerf was appropriate. As you say, CoC melted a lot of content and GGG noted it put considerable strain on the server.
I'm not even contesting your point that many people flip out without fully digesting the patch notes as a whole. My only caveat was that you chastized people for ignoring 100% proc rate buff, and I am just suggesting that they may well have accounted for it, and found it accurately irrelevant.

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Boredom111 wrote:

CoC has a cooldown of 500ms per spell.
Meaning, with high enough attack speed and crit chance, you can get 6 casts per second with 3 spells linked to CoC, or 4 with two.

That would be more than 2 procs per second.

And i'm not really sure if those 6 procs per second are realistic, let alone viable in end game content.
It'd be still nerfed a lot ( maybe too much, but i'm not one to argue about that )

You are correct - Bex just confirmed as much on Reddit.
With a 6L you can trigger eight spells per second (with CoC and trigger attack as the last two).
This isn't necessarily terrible. I suspect the final dps will be very similar (probably just a bit lower) than self-cast spells with 5 cast speed/damage supports. People are just upset because CoC builds did a lot more damage before (with dozens of spells per second), and often required a lot of specific (sometimes expensive) equipment that is no longer very useful (e.g. crit wands with spell dmg). They are mourning the loss of time and effort investments, and some people aren't great at dealing with loss so they're lashing out. Thus, all the rage posts.


There is one additional constraint - only one spell can be launched per "frame". We're not entirely sure yet what impact that might have, but presumably if you are running at 40 frames per second it won't matter that much.

Dam they destroyed earthquake, radius, damage, its area support gems were buried 2, and then void heart is made a total mess, all it was use for was bleed and poison other stats were useless. Should of been 50℅ for each.

So basically earthquake got about 5 direct / indirect debuff?...it's not like these isn't any other skills that as good, oh wait...

I wish they fused it with have strike and upped its multi but removed the quake, make the whole skill a quake, no delay, or 2 hits with a 50-60 percent losses in attack speed, that way it could keep its age and power.

Just my 2 cent, but dam were there a lot of earth quake birds, tried heavy strike , reave etc nutting feels fun to play, bar earthquake.

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thurmack wrote:

I am not an expert with CoC so there may be plenty of builds better than mine, but mine should serve as at least a decent baseline. I 'attack' 24 times per second, with 95% crit rate.
That's roughly 16 procs per second, or a little over three times your starting values in your calculations. It should be noted that not all projectiles will hit targets, so this number is high.
The result (omitting misses) is a roughly 80% reduction of dps. If you had a build that did 100k/sec before, and now it does 20k/sec, you might find yourself getting a bit frustrated. That doesn't mean the nerf shouldn't happen, just that it is reasonable for CoC players to be disappointed. It would be reasonable to be disappointed even with a 50% decrease in damage output. That's a big chunk for any player. Being disappointed, however, does not necessarily equate to being right (or entitled).

I don't disagree that the nerf was appropriate. As you say, CoC melted a lot of content and GGG noted it put considerable strain on the server.
I'm not even contesting your point that many people flip out without fully digesting the patch notes as a whole. My only caveat was that you chastized people for ignoring 100% proc rate buff, and I am just suggesting that they may well have accounted for it, and found it accurately irrelevant.

Assuming that you got such high aps, which would now be "wasted" by the new mechanics, there also is the option to go for less aps by way of passives, and push for more spell dmg/crit multi to compensate.

All things considered, you need to proc on a reliable basis, to play CoC in a somewhat safe fashion. Before you went all-out on aps, with what measely amount of points you could spare, to get the needed consistancy for packs and bosses, now you can distribute your points differently. So all in all CoC will still be viable, and stronger than most.

I can see where you are coming from, and I would be pissed off, if my build had 100k dps, and then ends up having 20k, but the fact of the matter is that you can reach a couple million dps now, so this example of yours does not really hold its own either. ;-)

Basically these high proc rates are part a balance issue, and part a technical problem.

As for the idea of being entitled, and why I used that term to begin with: No amount of ingame currency, or time spent, entitles anyone to not getting their builds nerfed. Neither does a 100ex-build, which again isn't a lot from my point of view, entitle anyone to dismiss other player's opinions.

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Boredom111 wrote:

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Sure_K4y wrote:

This is the exact same thing that is already stated in these patch notes here. Your interpretations are wishful thinking. The Cast on Crit gem itself has a 500ms cooldown, and triggers only one spell at a time, so even if you link a million spell gems to it, you only get 2 procs per second. Or am I on the wrong train now?

CoC has a cooldown of 500ms per spell.
Meaning, with high enough attack speed and crit chance, you can get 6 casts per second with 3 spells linked to CoC, or 4 with two.

That would be more than 2 procs per second.

And i'm not really sure if those 6 procs per second are realistic, let alone viable in end game content.
It'd be still nerfed a lot ( maybe too much, but i'm not one to argue about that )

The patch notes state:

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Cast on Critical Strike now has a 500ms cooldown, and will now only trigger one spell per frame when you critically strike.

So, I assume the Cast on crit gem has a similar cooldown to Vengeance or Reckoning, meaning it can only trigger linked skill gems once per 500ms.

Honestly, they shouldn't nerf discharge with triggers (or at the least with poor old mjolner) It seems like a really poor way in handling balance. I'm fine with dealin with the 500ms CD, but to further reck other opportunities to infest in a build with discharge makes me never want to theory craft a discharge trigger build because you have the less damage. Elemental proliferation had a huge impact on the community as well and look at it now. Hardly anyone touches the support gem because how difficult it is to invest and build around it with such poor reductions and aoe. I would even be fine with a nerf to the discharge gem itself, but to strictly aim at triggered CoC and Mjolner players with the 35% less damage seems a little over the edge. Either way I'll probably test it :D. Can't wait for AoW!!!!!!

More than 100 pages in one day..... teh salt is real. ^^