I feel like I am missing something vital. The maps have been placed on a board with paths between them. That's nice I guess, not complaining at all. Cool boss in the center and all, also nice. Some new maps, also nice if they are not mazes. But was that it? I may be too demanding, but feel abit cheated with the hype Chris generated before.
''It was nice but not really great'' in memory of rondanashu 13.4.2016
You are all running with the assumption that the rest of us want to run only quick-clear maps and nothing else. How naive and narrow-minded that opinion is. The rest of us enjoy content and would be bored to tears running quick-clear maps over and over again.
No thank you, I will unlock my entire Atlas and have fun doing it. Because adding percents to map drop or choosing specific maps for certain tiers doesn't really concern me. I'm not here to progress as fast as possible through end-game with my characters.
Yeah, see...Here's the issue I have with that theory. I want to progress at a reasonable pace, meaning I want to actually complete the Atlas, fight the overtuned bosses at the end, and die a little more inside when they drop vendor trash. Problem is, under this "completely new" system it sounds like that's going to be just as absurdly impossible to achieve as it currently is. The main complaint among people like me who want a natural progression is that next-tier maps just don't drop. The theory was that Atlas would fix that problem and allow for a steady progression from one tier to the next. Instead, we have a system that all but laughs in your face as you actively poison your own drop pools.
Literally all they need to do to fix this system is to remove the "drop any previously-completed map" bullshit. If someone is running a T10 map, they should be limited to getting T9-11 drops. That way you have a realistic chance of progressing to the next stage, or you can stay where you are until you feel ready to move on.
Good thoughts on it, thanks for that view point. Helps me understand the complaints about this in a different light.
The main complaint among people like me who want a natural progression is that next-tier maps just don't drop. The theory was that Atlas would fix that problem and allow for a steady progression from one tier to the next.
Im not sure that was ever the theory they were working on or wanted to see. I think maybe some of you guys just decided thats what it should be and are now upset that its not.
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BlaqWolf wrote:
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Shaped versions of that map will now start dropping. Unshaped versions will not drop for you any more.
This is a huge glaring issue. If I 'shape' a tier 1 map (level 65?), it - and ALL SUBSEQUENT drops of this map are now level 70. This is great for my level 80 character, but all new characters I'm bringing up now have to deal with a tier 1 map that's a level 70. Or I have to trade for un-shaped versions of that tier 1 for the character to run until he can manage whatever tier 2s I have not shaped.
I think the idea is that you will have a limited amount of shapers orbs, so youll never be able to upgrade every map, like so...
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There are fifteen available, and they are distributed among specific maps in the Atlas (one at each of map tiers 6-12, two at tier 13, and three each at tiers 14 and 15). Earning the 1% cumulative map quantity bonus mentioned above earns you the Shaper's Orb from that map, if it has one.
Generally you earn a tier X Shaper's Orb from completing a tier X+5 map. For example, if you complete a tier 15 map that has a Shaper's Orb as the reward, then you'll receive a tier 10 Shaper's Orb, allowing you to upgrade a tier 10 map of your choice to tier 15.
Shaper's Orbs are essentially quest items, in that they are non-tradeable. You can respec the decision to upgrade a map by trading 20 Cartographer's Chisels and 5 Orbs of Regret to a vendor.
so theres 100 maps, 15 shapers orbs, that means 85 of your maps will never be upgraded. Theres only one tier 6 map that grants a shapers orb, that means theres only 1 orb that can be applied to T1 maps, and theres 4 different T1 map bases. Its impossible to shape yourself out of being able to find T1 maps, you just cant find the one you upgraded unless you downgrade it with the recipe.
We'll just have to wait and see if not opening t2-9 on atlas results in more t10+ drops,or is the same like hiding them with filter as you say.
I have a feeling that though logic says it will be the same,it won't be.
It's GGG we're talking about here..
Some ppl don't seem to understand what the whole "poison your map drops" is referring to. You can only get dropped maps that you have unlocked or those near them, so say that there are 5 T12 maps, from which 1 is optimal, 2 are good and 2 are horrible. If you only have the optimal map unlocked, then ALL your T12 maps will be this optimal one, while if you have all 5 then you only have 20% of getting an optimal.
You also have no penalty from clearing lower tier maps, as long as they don't unlock new maps from the tier you are trying to farm. That allows you to keep a decent map drop bonus, while making sure that you will always get the optimal maps from your desired tier.
I feel like I am missing something vital. The maps have been placed on a board with paths between them. That's nice I guess, not complaining at all. Cool boss in the center and all, also nice. Some new maps, also nice if they are not mazes. But was that it? I may be too demanding, but feel abit cheated with the hype Chris generated before.
They doubled the map drop rate (if you complete all maps) added some new bosses which until now we've seen them drop shitty uniques and one final unknown boss which we don't know what he drops.
Once you complete all maps it's like before atlas but with a drop rate bonus.
All the shitty maps will drop twice as much.
I expect many clarifications from GGG or else it's gonna be the first league that people won't start maps but rather wait for streamers to find the most efficient paths on atlas.
Too many crucial questions are not answered yet.
We'll just have to wait and see if not opening t2-9 on atlas results in more t10+ drops,or is the same like hiding them with filter as you say.
I have a feeling that though logic says it will be the same,it won't be.
It's GGG we're talking about here..
Some ppl don't seem to understand what the whole "poison your map drops" is referring to. You can only get dropped maps that you have unlocked or those near them, so say that there are 5 T12 maps, from which 1 is optimal, 2 are good and 2 are horrible. If you only have the optimal map unlocked, then ALL your T12 maps will be this optimal one, while if you have all 5 then you only have 20% of getting an optimal.
You also have no penalty from clearing lower tier maps, as long as they don't unlock new maps from the tier you are trying to farm. That allows you to keep a decent map drop bonus, while making sure that you will always get the optimal maps from your desired tier.
Do you know for sure that when a map drops and it rolls to be a 12 it will certainly be the only one you have opened?
What if it rolls to be another 12 which you haven't opened and so the drop is cancelled?
In that case you would get the same number of desired t12 either you unlocked one or all of them.
We don't know how GGG designed this.
Do you know for sure that when a map drops and it rolls to be a 12 it will certainly be the only one you have opened?
What if it rolls to be another 12 which you haven't opened and so the drop is cancelled?
In that case you would get the same number of desired t12 either you unlocked one or all of them.
We don't know how GGG designed this.
Decides tier first then what map it is so you can manipulate it this way.
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Maybe this has been answered already, but I didn't take the time to read all the pages, but will this be implemented on the core game itself or only for the upcoming temp league?
Do you know for sure that when a map drops and it rolls to be a 12 it will certainly be the only one you have opened?
What if it rolls to be another 12 which you haven't opened and so the drop is cancelled?
In that case you would get the same number of desired t12 either you unlocked one or all of them.
We don't know how GGG designed this.
It's stated clearly in the OP:
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Unlocking more maps doesn't change how many of a specific tier you receive (but increases the number of different maps that you see at that tier).
Thanks for that,i didn't notice it.
Well it's the first league that "punishes" those who play it's full content.
Double drop rate can't compete with all t13 being gorge for example.
For those that intend to gather currency and experience fast at least.
What happens when it rolls a drop to be t7 and i have completed none?
Does it roll again until it meets a tier i have completed?
Was super hyped about the atlas, but... you guys just didn't thought this through.
Cool thing about the atlas concept was that you could implement engaging, self-defined arc in endgame progression instead of pure random disjunctioned mapping OR repetitive 'gorges' all day.
But this, this is just abusable as ****. What you did you just made it easier for people to do the same **** over and over again. Was that your point? I don't think it was, and I hope it wasn't.
/edit: actually I realized I'm apparently not that of a min-maxer. Was angry and downloaded atlas with map names, started to highlight the maps I'm interestied in, trying to prepare a perfect unlock for myself without going "dried lake until gorges all day". After a couple of minutes I realized I'm having fun already, and I was actually creating the arc that I just ranted about. I urge you guys that are concerned about the possible atlas abuse to do the same.
If doing gorges all day is what you define as fun, you'll be able to do that too of course and it still is abusable as ****. That's your call, and you'll be missing out on ****. From that perspective, the comment that Chris made "it's a game :-P" is not really dismissive.
That being said, I still think atlas map unlocks being account wide is a mistake. Different characters still have access to unlocking the atlas maps they want via the map pool that they build up in stash, so you can easily replicate the result if you want. Sextants though, that's another thing.
After taking a closer look to how atlas actually connects maps, I think it's gonna be all good.
investigated further while working on my "arc" map progression taking into account the shaper orbs, and the atlas itself is actually really well and carefully designed. Best map layouts are placed within 5 levels increments of each other, my conclusion is that we will actually see MORE variety when mapping with the highest effective xp/h possible in mind. No more gorges 24/7.
Seriously guys, take a good look at the atlas and you'll see they have obviously been aware of the possible "abuse", and designed with that in mind. I was really concerned because those recent GGG calls seemed... not in touch with the game, but it really does make sense.
/edit: wha I did was visually clarifying the atlas so that I can see the tiers and connections in a plain way, so basically reverse-engeneered it to a point where I could see the design phase.
I'm telling you, it's gonna be fine.
Last edited by Razis#4500 on Aug 24, 2016, 5:56:33 PM
