Uninstalled the game due to no changes to labyrinth

Ok, good luck.

Have fun playing D3

"

CliveHowlitzer wrote:

However, you could just NOT do the lab. Yes, you have to do it to get some Ascendancy points but the lab is pretty painless to just have to do 3 times. Uber lab points are not required for any build to function. You can still crush all content without them.

This argumentation is just not valid. PoE was all about character customiztation right from the start and ascendency is a big part of this now. It's just not fair to force this kind of gameplay on the players just to get the AC points. Here's a statement from Chris about the new Update, Atlas of the Worlds:

"

"This amount of structure is a pretty huge change to the formless system the maps took on before Atlas of Worlds, but Grinding Gear told me it wanted to make sure that players could ignore the Atlas entirely if they didn't like it, not wanting to alienate current players. If you just want to play like you were before, you ll still be completing maps, finding more that drop, and generally seeing them getting more difficult you just won't know the method behind it all unless you consult the Atlas. So while it adds some welcome structure, it doesn't impose itself upon you."

How can they really say something like this without getting embarrassed? Because they ARE alienating current players with the lab and they should have made the way on how to get the AC points optional right from the start (example: Through killing Izaro or Malachai).
But they say "People are playing lab, so it seems to be ok". Yes, ofc people are playing the lab! They took the worst content (gauntlet gameplay) and put the best content (AC points) behind it. So people are playing it to get AC points, but find it boring and tedious and for some it's just to dangerous because of connection issues and the percantage based damage of the traps.

Everytime I think about a new character I think about all the trouble I have to get through. Not just playing the first 70 boring levels until I can finaly start mapping, but also doing the boring sidequests for the skill points and then the lab 4 times. And since some people like me need 25-30 minutes to finish the lab, it's still quite alot of time I have to spent in there and lets not forget that if I play a character with little to no life reg, traps can indeed kill me within 1 second. Just a short lag and I'm done for and that can even happen when I pay for a rush.

I still think the way GGG handled this whole matter is unprofessional. They could have easily tested this out by setting the AC points behind Malachai for one week and take a look at the statistics. If players would still have played the labyrinth, then they could justify why they put them behind the lab, because the majority of players seem to enjoy it. But if only 1% of the playerbase was playing the lab during that time, you could say that the AC points were the only motivation for players to actually enter the lab and -when given the chance- avoid it entirely once they are removed.
They could also take a look on other numbers. For example: How many players run the merc/ubber labyrinth more then one time with the same character? If only 1% of the playerbase is doing that, then that also indicates that players only run the lab once to get the AC points and then avoid it after that.

Content should motivate the player to play it again and again, because it's rewarding AND fun! And the lab is certainly not fun for many...

nice point by Ace. And yes GGG should be embarrassed they have let the lab fester into a cancerous tumor

So you're saying that a hard boss drops loot proportional to his difficulty and that it's a bad thing.

Ok, bye.

"

Timewar9 wrote:

So you're saying that a hard boss drops loot proportional to his difficulty and that it's a bad thing.

He didn't say that. The problem with Izaro and the lab is, that it is designed in a way, that makes it easy for Juggernaut (mainly phys damage) but to hard for most other builds. There's a reason why nearly everyone pays a Juggernaut to do Merciless and Ubber Izaro for them, because anything else gets easily one-shotted (or has at least ALOT of trouble with him), especially with all the traps in 3rd Izaro fight.

Take Atziri for example: She is ENTIRELY optional. If you dont want to do her, you dont need to. You dont even have to be present. If you want her uniques, buy them from someone else. And if I would play softcore, I would try her too, because her fight looks like fun and it's rewarding. But for hc, it's to difficult for me, so I avoid her. That's how super challanging content should be. It should fun, rewarding and optional. Ofc the challange in later levels must rise to some extent, but if I map, I can avoid maps with bosses I'm not comfortable with. But labyrinth? I can't avoid Izaro unless I pay someone to do him for me.

AC points are core-mechanics in your character progression right now, so GGG should have made sure that anyone can actually do Izaro. That doesnt mean he should be easy, but he shouldn't easily one-shot you if you play a squishy shadow for example.

"

He didn't say that. The problem with Izaro and the lab is, that it is designed in a way, that makes it easy for Juggernaut (mainly phys damage) but to hard for most other builds. There's a reason why nearly everyone pays a Juggernaut to do Merciless and Ubber Izaro for them, because anything else gets easily one-shotted (or has at least ALOT of trouble with him), especially with all the traps in 3rd Izaro fight.

if you believe what you write then you are the prime example of L2P

what you wrote are memes - pieces of rumors stitched together to create something that is entirely untrue

- lab is doable on ANY character that makes sense.
- traps are a non issue for players that know what to do (ive farmed the Merc lab yesterday on my SRS ghetto self found witch: 3.8k life, 1.4k ES, no regen whatsoever).
- people play jugg because it is the easiest way to play low lvl content (try that jugg in red ele maps and report back.. it is a noob trap and one trick pony with questionable clearspeed)
- there is no point farming Uber lab if you cannot handle the adds and most adds turn Izaro damage into elemental (essences, lieutenants, idols, conduits + mages from portals - only two that do not add elements are Fonts and Gargoyles). so jugg is just as vulnerable as any other build that does not know what to do and what happens around. plus Jugg is popular because he is popular. most players do not know why this class is strong, they just play it because other players play it. 'celebrity' class
- if you need 25 mins for a lab run, again L2P. youll get there eventually and cut that to more manageable 10-15
- traps in the 3rd fights? you are joking right? if that is your problem.. L2P again

"

AceNightfire wrote:

"

Timewar9 wrote:

So you're saying that a hard boss drops loot proportional to his difficulty and that it's a bad thing.

He didn't say that. The problem with Izaro and the lab is, that it is designed in a way, that makes it easy for Juggernaut (mainly phys damage) but to hard for most other builds. There's a reason why nearly everyone pays a Juggernaut to do Merciless and Ubber Izaro for them, because anything else gets easily one-shotted (or has at least ALOT of trouble with him), especially with all the traps in 3rd Izaro fight.

Take Atziri for example: She is ENTIRELY optional. If you dont want to do her, you dont need to. You dont even have to be present. If you want her uniques, buy them from someone else. And if I would play softcore, I would try her too, because her fight looks like fun and it's rewarding. But for hc, it's to difficult for me, so I avoid her. That's how super challanging content should be. It should fun, rewarding and optional. Ofc the challange in later levels must rise to some extent, but if I map, I can avoid maps with bosses I'm not comfortable with. But labyrinth? I can't avoid Izaro unless I pay someone to do him for me.

AC points are core-mechanics in your character progression right now, so GGG should have made sure that anyone can actually do Izaro. That doesnt mean he should be easy, but he shouldn't easily one-shot you if you play a squishy shadow for example.

If you are playing a squishy shadow, then you probably should have enough dps to make up for it. Tons of people do lab all the time on all sorts of builds.

Yes, for certain builds you have to change your flask and gem setup for it, but that's nothing new. There's tons of content in the game that makes you do that.

You've said that the lab is not fun for many. You're also discounting the fact that it is fun for many people.

"

sidtherat wrote:

if you believe what you write then you are the prime example of L2P

Maybe you should L2R (learn to read). I never said it's impossible for non-lifereg/speed characteres, it's just much harder.

"

sidtherat wrote:

- lab is doable on ANY character that makes sense.

Never said anything else. Though, doable doesn't mean it's balanced. Squishy builds have a real problem with Izaro, since they can tank traps very long and have to deal with Izaro damage. And Izaro can 1-shot squishy builds.

"

sidtherat wrote:

- traps are a non issue for players that know what to do (ive farmed the Merc lab yesterday on my SRS ghetto self found witch: 3.8k life, 1.4k ES, no regen whatsoever).

Yeah yeah. Whatever. You are so good... It doesn't change anything about the fact that many players dont enjoy this gameplaystyle and that many dont have a perfectly stable internet connection. And some dont get used to the gauntlet gameplay, especially since there are trap layout that go off-screen.

"

sidtherat wrote:

- people play jugg because it is the easiest way to play low lvl content (try that jugg in red ele maps and report back.. it is a noob trap and one trick pony with questionable clearspeed)

And 90% of the lab carries are Juggs. That's no coincidence. Also I have enough lvl 95+ Juggernauts in my friendlist to see that it's the easiest of all classes, even in higher levels.

"

sidtherat wrote:

- there is no point farming Uber lab if you cannot handle the adds and most adds turn Izaro damage into elemental (essences, lieutenants, idols, conduits + mages from portals - only two that do not add elements are Fonts and Gargoyles). so jugg is just as vulnerable as any other build that does not know what to do and what happens around. plus Jugg is popular because he is popular. most players do not know why this class is strong, they just play it because other players play it. 'celebrity' class

What is there to know about Jugg? You can get over 10 endurance charges easily, having an easy time to keep up immortal call for like 6-7 seconds (making you invulnarable to phys damage at all times) and you get -8% elemental damage when having full endurance charges. Also lets not forget that you have tons of movement speed and can't be slowed down below base speed and your fortify is even more effective. So this class is super tanky and still does tons of damage thanks to fortify damage buff and endurance charge damage buff. And lets not forget 1300 Life Reg per second or more all the time when end charges are up. Juggernaut isn't hard to understand. There are no hidden mechanics, everything is self-explanatory.

"

sidtherat wrote:

- if you need 25 mins for a lab run, again L2P. youll get there eventually and cut that to more manageable 10-15

Some players just have their own pace, you understand that? I'm not playing PoE to rush through things. I'm not a player who gets lvl 80 at day 1. I take my time and I try to avoid heavy risks (especially since my connection isnt perfect). I think it's no shame to play like that. But this playstyle does mean for me I have to waste more time in the lab.

"

sidtherat wrote:

- traps in the 3rd fights? you are joking right? if that is your problem.. L2P again

Really no fun to discuss things with you. All you do is throw around the term "l2p" as soon as someone doesnt meet your standards.

===================================================

"

Etherfire wrote:

You've said that the lab is not fun for many. You're also discounting the fact that it is fun for many people.

I never discounted that. In fact, I made suggestions that keep the current lab untouched. Im not one of those who want the classic lab changed or removed, because I understand that there are people who enjoy it. I just question if really that many players actually enjoy it and I question if it was really necessary to put AC points behind experimental content. If GGG thinks Atlas of the Worlds is already experimental enough to make it optional, then they should have thought the same about lab, since it's even more experimental then Atlas.

Why didn't you give your stuff away before you leave? wtf dude