GGG, Lab thoughts + suggestions.

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fm1081 wrote:

Yep, I agree that playing self found is deliverately crippling the gameplay, so if someone chooses to play that way, he has to assume the disadvantages.

Apart from that, I dont agree that those "challenges"/trap gameplay take such skill and avoid faceroll. With the right preparation its more faceroll. Even more speed and go-go-go.

OP adressed the alocation of asc points. Because those points are tied to trap gameplay, instead of allowing build diversity, they are actually limiting them, so no much balance there.

Sorry if any bad english.

Your English is better then a lot of native speakers I come in contact with daily.

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sidtherat wrote:

companies and cultures that promote based on 'time spent' rather than on 'merit' are not usualy very successful

asc points are rewards for the worthy. be one and these are yours. askimg for freebies does wonders in real life too

So laughable. Pay 2 chaos for a run and get your worthy reward!

Not to mention if you just so happen to have the right build type, you can simply cheese straight through it with your eyes closed. Worthy... lol

Solo self found was just an example. There are many builds that can do fine as solo self found such as totem ones, traps, etc.

I mostly play solo or 2p in every league and after I get a bit bored of leveling new chars ( I level 10+ chars every league ) I occasionally join some Public Dried Lake farming for a few levels, but that's just about it.


The problem is that PoE is one of the most imbalanced games I've ever come across in my life and in every way imaginable.

Gating ascendancies behind labs / traps / etc makes things even worse.

This is not about people liking the lab or not, it's about giving EQUALITY to as many builds as possible to get what GGG has made almost mandatory now; Ascendancies.


Example 1: Why should a full eva / dodge char be so punished when trying to go through traps? Shouldn't they have a chance to dodge / evade them for example? My tanky armor char with 600 regen just laughs at traps whereas my full eva archer suffers! And no, speed alone is not enough, coz you lag and if you have lots of movement speed you can't control your char so accurately. I don't even know how many times my screen was showing my char in a next room only to realize that I had desynced and was dying on top of a spike trap :p

Example 2: Why should so many players suffer because of lab lag and desyncs? Don't tell me about Internet connections coz I've seen major streamers desync in the lab and die coz they were on top of a spike / door trap.

Example 3: You created immense build diversity, it's a theorycrafter's paradise and I personally love to make "niche" or even "weird" builds that actually do work most of the time in the endgame! However, few of them can actually kill Uber Izaro when they have no problem whatsoever doing rare un-id Plateaus +


So, what I'm really saying is: eliminate all this unecessary frustration and make things simple and above all FAIR. Those who want to benefit from Uber lab drops will still have access to it but the ascendancy points SHOULD NOT BE THERE.

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EKTELESTES wrote:

Example 1: Why should a full eva / dodge char be so punished when trying to go through traps? Shouldn't they have a chance to dodge / evade them for example? My tanky armor char with 600 regen just laughs at traps whereas my full eva archer suffers!

Are Evasion/Dodge builds not allowed to get regen? Armour does nothing against damage over time, which most of the traps are. So why should you be able to dodge or evade something that armour doesn't mitigate either?

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EKTELESTES wrote:

Example 1: Why should a full eva / dodge char be so punished when trying to go through traps? Shouldn't they have a chance to dodge / evade them for example? My tanky armor char with 600 regen just laughs at traps whereas my full eva archer suffers! And no, speed alone is not enough, coz you lag and if you have lots of movement speed you can't control your char so accurately. I don't even know how many times my screen was showing my char in a next room only to realize that I had desynced and was dying on top of a spike trap :p

your eva/dodge char is NOT punished. he is not granted a benefit but there is nothing that prevents him from completing the trials/traps. your first method of not dying there is not getting hit. there is not a single build out there that cannot complete the traps. some have it easier - true, but ALL can do them. EVERY FREAKING BUILD can do them. just do not get hit.

oh and a big deal when tanky armour guys are finally good at something! tell me how well this tanky AR guy fares vs Avatar of Thunder or any other heavy ele boss out there. i bet youd like to face them with your ranged ev/dodge character

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Example 2: Why should so many players suffer because of lab lag and desyncs? Don't tell me about Internet connections coz I've seen major streamers desync in the lab and die coz they were on top of a spike / door trap.

examples. 'so many' is a neat way of saying 'i do not know how many but lets make it sound serious'

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Example 3: You created immense build diversity, it's a theorycrafter's paradise and I personally love to make "niche" or even "weird" builds that actually do work most of the time in the endgame! However, few of them can actually kill Uber Izaro when they have no problem whatsoever doing rare un-id Plateaus +

6 points are perfectly possible for any build (if you play support - do the lab as a group you play in). 7th and 8th points are mostly fluff that change little but also should be possible if the build is not a thrash glass-cannon one (ever considered that Uber Izaro might be a way of weeding out builds that should not be ever used?).
and sorry but 'un-id plateau' is not a benchmark of a difficult content. it is a benchmark of braindead repetitive no-risk no-skill grind POE turned into. there is no risk when everything is dead before it can react. and you can reach this level of dumb damage output at around lvl 60 using twink uniques. 'unid plateau'.. big deal..

I guess we're playing a different game or we live in a different world.

What kind of archer can get such high life regen, i.e. 600 / sec :P ? Archers usually have about 4.5k life at level 85, even 90. LOL.

Don't tell me about the Mara BM archer, please :P


Secondly, I mentioned a ton of times, there are lots of desyncs and lags while in the lab, so eva builds ARE severely punished.

And the "so many" comes from my personal experience, from like 20 friends that were online at the start of the league, from the TONS OF PEOPLE that have been complaining on Reddit + forums about the lab + the tons of people that ASK / OFFER a carry on the noticeboards!

If you haven't noticed any of these, then we must really be playing a different game o.O


P.S.

A rare un-id Plateau is a good example coz of the map level and the fact it is un-id which means possible reflect + curses etc.

A big majority of builds out there cannot even do reflect maps.

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sidtherat wrote:

(ever considered that Uber Izaro might be a way of weeding out builds that should not be ever used?)

Great bosses like Izaro have done and continue to provide that secondary "service" in PoE. This is the way it always has been and should be. Unfortunately, traps do not do that. Traps are more like an aberration that really doesn't weed out much except people that don't like trap gameplay.

That guy can do rare un-id Plateaus at level 60.....


Izaro was made to weed out builds....


ROFL. What else am I going to see in this world..!

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mark1030 wrote:

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EKTELESTES wrote:

Example 1: Why should a full eva / dodge char be so punished when trying to go through traps? Shouldn't they have a chance to dodge / evade them for example? My tanky armor char with 600 regen just laughs at traps whereas my full eva archer suffers!

Are Evasion/Dodge builds not allowed to get regen? Armour does nothing against damage over time, which most of the traps are. So why should you be able to dodge or evade something that armour doesn't mitigate either?

Armor DOES mitigate the initial hit, don't be silly! Spike traps are a good example, if you have a good armored char, they barely touch you when you get hit!

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EKTELESTES wrote:

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mark1030 wrote:

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EKTELESTES wrote:

Example 1: Why should a full eva / dodge char be so punished when trying to go through traps? Shouldn't they have a chance to dodge / evade them for example? My tanky armor char with 600 regen just laughs at traps whereas my full eva archer suffers!

Are Evasion/Dodge builds not allowed to get regen? Armour does nothing against damage over time, which most of the traps are. So why should you be able to dodge or evade something that armour doesn't mitigate either?

Armor DOES mitigate the initial hit, don't be silly! Spike traps are a good example, if you have a good armored char, they barely touch you when you get hit!

I didn't say all traps. Obviously Spike traps hit. But stand in a Saw Blade trap and tell me how good armour is. Stand in a Spinning Blade trap and tell me how good armour is. Stand in a Blade Sentry trap and tell me how good armour is. You focus on evasion. The only trap that armour helps with that is not evadable is the spike trap. Every other trap hurts armour as much as evasion. So stop acting like evasion builds get excessively punished somehow. They even get to skip the slowing effect of the dart trap if they evade/dodge the darts. Armour builds don't get that luxury.

And life regen is a build choice. It's there if people want it. Many Archers skip it because they go Vaal Pact. But that's also a build choice. There is 2.6% life regen in the Ranger and Duelist areas that are pretty common to get. More just on the other side of the Scion life wheel if you go there (another choice). And i run with a L20 Stone Golem, which gives 105 Life regen. That's not even counting items like Blood Dance boots, which is one of the most favored boots by Archers. So you can quit acting like a victim with an Archer. There are plenty of options. If you don't see them, then you are choosing a more glass cannon style. Which is fine. But it's a choice.

Edit: and an unid'd plateau map is a joke. A quick test and if you decide you can't do the map because the mods don't fit your build, you just run a different one. Unless you want to say it's 1 map and if you can't do it, too bad.