Put Ascendency points as a reward for defeating Malachai.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Easy builds for doing labyrinth are high regen builds and very high movement builds. People seem to generally think that Juggernauts are the builds that breeze through the traps the easiest. Traps are really unbalanced for different builds. Some builds it's very hard and others very easy.

Thats because the lab is a specific set of encounters, similar to atziri or bosses of various unique maps, you know there is little deviation between the encounters or you know the deviations and can plan for them.

GGG adjusted the ES builds taking too much damage from traps and can do similar balance changes, but it won't ever be balanced because much like the other previous encounters listed, people can and will build specifically to counteract as much of the negatives as possible.

That being said many people with many different builds can simply do various smaller things to prep for the challenge as well. The character this league I run the lab on the most is a VP character that relies on flask charges for offense and defense.

So I gots no armor, no real evasion, no real defenses normally but if I plan for the encounter I can adjust accordingly.

Bottom line, labyrinth is very hard for some builds and very easy for other builds. It's really very poorly balanced for such an important reward as the ascendancy points.

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Traps that hit can be mitigated with armour. If you have flat mitigation like endurance charges or basalt flask or soul of steel you can reduce the dots from sawblades and rotating poles. With a 20% craft on a shield/2hander/bow and 10 endurance charges and basalt up you can actually reduce damage from dot traps by 80%! Naturally if you have immortal call up you take no damage.

also dart trap damage can be evaded too, and blocked i think maybe dodge idk, but that is the only thing evasion and other mechanics do directly

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Turtledove wrote:

Bottom line, labyrinth is very hard for some builds and very easy for other builds. It's really very poorly balanced for such an important reward as the ascendancy points.

Just like how some encounters in the game are harder for some builds then others. There is no such thing as true balance when you not only have the ability to build specifically for the encounter but basically know exactly what to expect as well.


Thats like saying every build needs to have as easy of a time doing any unique map, yet many builds cant do various unique maps or cant do them to the same degree. That being said people in HC and all leagues find a way to defeat the challenge.


Durresso for example shits on builds that are built around evasion because of the swords, dominus has been mostly nerfed into irrelevance, but can still be difficult for some builds. Don't pretend like other content in this game isn't harder for some builds then others, specially when you make adjustments.

The failure on the people complaining about the lab is they make almost no adjustments for the encounter and QQ. It just isn't logical to not plan for a challenge, if you run a non regen map but rely heavily on mana to use your abilities wouldnt you swap in a mana pot or give yourself some way to recover mana?


Failing to make adjustments doesn't indicate that the content isn't properly balanced, it indicates a terrible player.

While it is true that some bosses do say fire or chaos damage and one can prepare flasks for those bosses, I think that the lack of balance in traps is probably more pronounced and problematic. GGG has mitigated the worst of the worst offender, that is ES builds, but labyrinth traps still exhibits greater favoring/punishment of different build types than any other boss encounter in the game that I can think of. It is a matter of degree of the imbalance that is the problem. If anyone can think of the exception that makes this false then please let us know.

I agree mostly bcos it has divided player´s base into two groups (lovers x haters) which si not good for the game.

Ascendancy points as reward for killing Dominus would be also good solution bcos you could use asc points to upgrade your char before facing act4.

Lab needs some overall balance anyway (better overview, map navigation, etc..)
Also traps that doing % damage of life don´t fit arpg concept (should be flat damage that can be mitigated or even better destroyable traps so you can choose whether you run through or waste your time killing it ... why? bcos choices are always good and fun)

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Turtledove wrote:

While it is true that some bosses do say fire or chaos damage and one can prepare flasks for those bosses, I think that the lack of balance in traps is probably more pronounced and problematic. GGG has mitigated the worst of the worst offender, that is ES builds, but labyrinth traps still exhibits greater favoring/punishment of different build types than any other boss encounter in the game that I can think of. It is a matter of degree of the imbalance that is the problem. If anyone can think of the exception that makes this false then please let us know.

The deadly traps affect builds almost equally, plus they are 100% avoidable. You never have to take damage from a trap, EVER.

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Ascendancy points as reward for killing Dominus would be also good solution bcos you could use asc points to upgrade your char before facing act4.

Thats even worst then after malachai, can people not understand act bosses reward is simply the access to the next act\difficuilty and that ascension is written into the game as a lab feature?

goetzjam - things are changing every day lol

What about piety and her 2 passive points?

Btw ever played diablo2 and heard smth about 1st boss kill?

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Rakiii wrote:

goetzjam - things are changing every day lol

What about piety and her 2 passive points?

Btw ever played diablo2 and heard smth about 1st boss kill?

Piety was never the intended end boss of act 3, its obvious now dominus was\is.


D2 is irrelevant in this discussion, its what PoE does and has done.

Sorry but your statements do not seem to reflect the reality of the situation. If traps are so wonderfully balanced already across the huge spectrum of build types then why are certain builds so heavily represented in the first few pages of the labyrinth ladders and others rarely show up?