Mechanical Questions Thread

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nommi wrote:

I have a question regarding flask charges. What is the interaction between pathfinder master surgeon ascendency, surgeon's flask (prefix), increased flask charges gained/increased charge recovery stats?

For example, if I have a surgeon's quicksilver flask with 100% increased flask charges gained from my equipment, I would gain 1 charge from flask mod, 1 charge from PF ascendency, and times by 2 with increased flask charge which totals to 4 gained from 1 crit?

Yes, that's correct.
Note: this is subject to change in 3.0, as you currently easily get perma flask effects, which was never intended.

Are the mana regen/cost numbers wrong?

I'm currently playing on a whirling blades character and the tooltip says the mana cost is 15 and attack speed is 1.06. My mana regen is 17, thterefore I assumed I could hold down my whirling blades button and not have mana problems, but when I hold down whiriling blades, I lose mana, and alot of it actually.

I was hoping that after getting a certain mana regen (thru an ring somewhere) I could travel indefinitely with whriling blades, but I'm not sure how much I need.

So how much mana regen do I need?
(also I went to dried lake and went max range whirling blades since I think shorter ones are faster, and I still lose mana, though slower)

Hi, I'm trying to make some DPS estimates for Shaper vs. Molten Strike. I have 4 questions.

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Suppose I get 300% increased area (pretend it's possible), this would translate to sqrt(1+3)-1
= 100% increased radius. Molten Strike does (or at least used to) cover a 270 degree arc starting at radius 5 and ending at radius 20 from the base of the melee hit. With 100% increased radius, does it make that range be 5 and 40, 10 and 20, 10 and 40, or 2.5 and 40? My best guess is 10 and 40, since that's what happens with physical objects that increase in size when they're heated.

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What's the base projectile radius for the molten strike balls, prior to any AoE scaling?

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What's the hitbox radius for Shaper?

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Is the following understanding of projectile hit physics correct?

I assume that mobs have hitboxes. I'll assume that projectiles are launched by Molten Strike's melee hit, centered in the middle of the mob due to name locking. I further suppose that if the net AoE radius increased by 2x, that means that the average distance traveled by a projectile doubles and that the radius of the projectile's hitbox also doubles. If the projectile's hitbox touches or intersects with the mob's hitbox, then the projectile has hit the mob. As I understand it, it doesn't matter if increases and decreases are now given in area instead of radius units: this only changes the amount of scaling that happens, not how the scaling happens.

Under those assumptions, suppose we have a mob with a hitbox radius of 2 and a projectile with a base hitbox radius of 2. This means that the edge of the projectile's hitbox touches the center of the mob. Clearly this is a hit.


If we double the AoE radius (i.e. 300% increased area, as described above), then the projectile's hitbox radius increases from 2 to 4 and the projectile's center is now 4 units from the mob's center (because that's where the melee hit happens). This is still a hit.


Now, let's change the situation and assume that all the base radii are the same (2 units), but the projectile's base center location is 4 units away instead of 2. The projectile and the mob still touch, so this is still a hit.


If we take this 2nd situation and double the AoE radius, then the projectile's hitbox radius still doubles from 2 to 4, but its center moves from 4 to 8 units away. Now we miss.


Assuming this is correct and that the base radius of a projectile is less than 20 (max base range for molten strike), it means that increasing the AoE (without increasing the number of projectiles) will decrease the average number of hits that land of a mob.

does magic find effect the grandmaster exiles in the grandmaster map? and what about the loot chest in the end couldnt find a answer anywhere

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MoldyDwarf wrote:

1. Suppose I get 300% increased area (pretend it's possible), this would translate to sqrt(1+3)-1
= 100% increased radius. Molten Strike does (or at least used to) cover a 270 degree arc starting at radius 5 and ending at radius 20 from the base of the melee hit. With 100% increased radius, does it make that range be 5 and 40, 10 and 20, 10 and 40, or 2.5 and 40? My best guess is 10 and 40, since that's what happens with physical objects that increase in size when they're heated.

2. What's the base projectile radius for the molten strike balls, prior to any AoE scaling?

3. What's the hitbox radius for Shaper?

4. Is the following understanding of projectile hit physics correct?

1. It's 10 and 40, all radius values go up.

2. Unknown, it is assumed it's around 9.

3. Unknown again, the only figure we do know for certain is that character hitbox has a radius of 2, monsters tend to have smaller hitbox than what it seems like so they're able to gang around you better. So it's probably 1 for small monsters like larvae, 2 for humanoid sized ones and 3 for large, at least we know there are no decimals involved.

4. Yes, that's correct. The short story is: all radius values go up but monster radius stays the same so you get a bit less hits. That's why single target Molten Strike setups go for Conc effect, it gives you a large damage boost and also more hits.

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Fyndel wrote:

does magic find effect the grandmaster exiles in the grandmaster map? and what about the loot chest in the end couldnt find a answer anywhere

Monster drops are affected by character MF bonuses but containers are only affected by the ones rolled on map.

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yutao1234 wrote:

Are the mana regen/cost numbers wrong?

I'm currently playing on a whirling blades character and the tooltip says the mana cost is 15 and attack speed is 1.06. My mana regen is 17, thterefore I assumed I could hold down my whirling blades button and not have mana problems, but when I hold down whiriling blades, I lose mana, and alot of it actually.

I was hoping that after getting a certain mana regen (thru an ring somewhere) I could travel indefinitely with whriling blades, but I'm not sure how much I need.

So how much mana regen do I need?
(also I went to dried lake and went max range whirling blades since I think shorter ones are faster, and I still lose mana, though slower)

Maybe you got some kind of bonus you didn't account for, but even if everything is fine the tooltip is often wonky so it's best that you experiment with it until you find the right number.

reposting here from https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1497984/page/3#p14381936

I think Shrapnel Shot has a weird tooltip quirk or possibly a faulty interaction with conversion scaling. Tested on a character with no flat ele or specific %ele increases.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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HexenLord wrote:

Whats the order of precedence for damage conversion with AoF? Normally, skill gems take precedence over gear.

Not quite. Conversions from skills take precidence over non-skill sources of conversion. There's no distinction between conversion from a passive and from gear, just skill/non-skill.

The wiki page on conversion seems to be based around this 2013 post, maintaining that conversion from "skills" is distinct and has priority over "non-skills" when >100% conversion needs to be scaled down. No mention is made of supports, and physical to lightning didn't exist yet.

An example of how most skills work is this Xoph's Inception Lightning Arrow setup. We have 150% total conversion. LA supported by Physical to Lightning grants 100% unscalable "skill" conversion. The 50% physical to fire from "non-skill" Xoph's Inception is scaled down to 0%.


So far so good. What if we switch to Shrapnel Shot? SS only has 40% lightning conversion compared to 50% on LA, so our "skill" conversion should drop to 90%. Xoph's "non-skill" conversion should be scaled down to occupy the remaining 10%.

That's way too much fire damage. Nearly a third when accounting for +20% additional lightning from lv11 support. ~30% fire damage could mean that one of our unscaled sources is being scaled down along with xoph's.

all other conversion skills have 50% or more conversion and behave correctly in giving physical to lightning support priority. ice shot in this setup deals no fire damage. is the 40% on shrapnel causing this somehow?

Another molten strike question:

Are the ball locations sampled from a uniform distribution over the area of the 270 degree arc or from a uniform distribution over rho and theta? If it's the former this would mean there are more balls that would hit the outer edge than the inner edge. If it's the former, this would mean the balls are concentrated near the melee hit. It's easier to implement sampling over rho and theta space, but sampling over the area feels more correct.

Question: Can "Path of Exile" have a, "Screen Damage" Like Diablo 3 or its not possible ?

Does onslaught effect on maps affect strongboxes?
I'm worried about ice nova and explosion triggering faster.