[2.6] The Curse Whisperer - Tri-Curse CI Whispering Ice Elementalist - Viable for Everything

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MrWestons wrote:

EDIT: I LITERALLY AM AN IDIOT. i DIDN'T HAVE GHOST REAVER POINT TAKEN. Going to see if that makes things better.

loool! I was already wondering how on earth this build could not feel "leechy". this is the answer. but dont worry, something like that even happens to the best of us from time to time. ;-)

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FasterBetter wrote:

whats the best color/gems for the helm?

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omgbbqwtflol wrote:

Loving the build, looking for a recommendation on what to gear up first. I've modified the tree slightly to get more ES, currently around 9.2k.

Unless you are playing in HC, grabbing extra %ES nodes is a mistake. Int is much better. It gives you base damage and ES too. 1500 Int = 300% inc ES

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sufferot wrote:

Thank you for the guide! now, finnaly, i can feel myself usefull. I have this gear and hopping around 8k ES and 6-7k tooltip damage of the icestorm. Can you say, what I need to upgrade in this gear ASAP?

Spoiler

Nothing. Your gear is good for everything. Just finish leveling the gems, you are almost there. And what's up with the Lavianga flask? :)

I can't see why your ES is only 8k with this gear though. Probably some weak jewels, or maybe just not high enough level yet, some sockets still to get.

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Messiah_sin_x wrote:

Which end game grinds are the easiest to accomplish, from what I've seen in his videos, Uber Izaro is quite easy, some of the shaper's guardians can be easily tanked but Idk about the other ones, I don't like doing Atziri's, seems like it requires much preparations taking you out of your comfort zone and you also have to move a lot.

In this league, forget about the endgame grind challenge. It's not going to happen unless you are willing to absolutely NoLife it. You can easily do T16, Uber Lab and Atziri, with some time investment. But they want you to do one more. And that's where it gets retarded. You can roflstomp the lv 70 Rigwald (the talisman one), the Pale Council or any breachlords. But getting the sets to do them 100 times over?? Fuck that. Even if you can find some rotations (I've seen people spamming /global 820 for hours looking for them) it's still insane. I already posted everything I think about this league, not going to repeat it all here, but IMO GGG went too far this time.

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gradinarcho wrote:

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cmbyrd00 wrote:

Your gloves have an armor craft on em for some reason. Try to find someone with a level 7 Haku who can strip that off and put flat ES on them. Won't be much, but should wind up with about 30 more ES on them. Every bit helps (=

haha I did that cause op did that I thought it was to help with getting 3 red sockets on the gloves but seems to not help haha

Haha, no, I crafted armor on the gloves just because I had an empty prefix and those gloves were not good enough to YOLO Exalt. It was either +life (slightly reduced chance of getting frozen/shocked) or +armor (slightly increased physical hit mitigation). I was more worried about T16 with +dmg mods than about freeze/shock, so I picked armor. But it's almost nothing.

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Capozzi wrote:

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gradinarcho wrote:

tried minotaur he whooped my ass I gues 5.8k es isn't enough lol and I guess cwdt/ic set it really is needed

also I think being a serker sucks I'm gonna assume witch is much better

Berserker version does not suck. That huge leech is not to be underestimated, nor is the free stun immunity. And the 40% more damage is, well, also huge. The little boosts to movement speed and attack speed also really help with quality of life too.

You've also got a few more free skill points if you go Berserker (at least early on) since you don't need to path down to Unwavering Stance. And thanks to Brute Force, those early points at the Marauder start mostly work in your favor (and are damned nice to have before you make the switch to CI/WI at 39).

Biggest suck for the class was getting blue skill gems, and that was basically solved with the changes to Siosa in the Library in 2.6.

And did I mention that huge leech?

TL;DR: Witch version isn't much better.

Berserker also gets more power from The Wise Oak. He has the highest tooltip of all versions (thanks to the 40% MORE dmg node), but he lacks resist penetration. So when he gets that extra penetration, that MORE damage really kicks in.

And of course with 5.8k ES you will get roflstomped by Minotaur as either class.

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gradinarcho wrote:

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Capozzi wrote:

Marauder should run Chaos golem.

so cwdt+ic+chaos golem? guess 2 red 1 blue would be easyer to get on gloves

The guide for the Berserker version is just as detailed as the Elementalist one. It's all there.

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huyakf1997 wrote:

Tri curse is not the core mechanic of this build right ? So i can just replace the doedre ring with the rare one ?

If you don't plan on farming T16/Shaper you don't really need 3 curses and can trade one for more DPS (either by swapping the ring or by dropping Whispers of Doom). But if you do want to farm the endgame then 3 curses will save your ass a lot more than a little extra damage or ES.

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gradinarcho wrote:

also someone said a rare jewel with say 12% spell damage and 16% spell damagae with a staff is better then turmoil?

No, it's not. 28% inc dmg is worse than even the lowest roll Izaro's.

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Ardo86 wrote:

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cmbyrd00 wrote:

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Ardo86 wrote:

Is adding Increased Duration to Cast when Damage Taken + Immortal Call worth it?

For a Witch, I'd say no - as you're using a 4L to do IC and both golems. Manually casting one and keeping em straight so both are out and blah blah blah... it's just a pain in the butt.

Leveled IC + endurance charges is plenty.

Thanks for your response! What about boss fights (with no endurance charges)? Is the Immortal Call extra duration from Increased Duration worth it (0.4s -> 0.7s)?

Even then I'd probably not swap out a golem for IC. To easily do it would require dropping fire golem, which is gonna be a 80% increased damage drop, so you'll almost have to keep him manually cast. That's an extra distraction that I don't need in a boss fight. Additionally, most boss fights without adds are gonna be big slow hits, most of which you should be avoiding all together; so I think it's unlikely that 0.3 more seconds makes a difference anyways.


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Edit while I'm thinking about it:


Kelvynn, you've listed the strengths of each class. What do you think the weaknesses of each are, and what are their unique quirks?

I'm playing witch right now, as per your 'if you've never tried it, go witch' advice, and the build itself is amazing... but the conditional stuff from the ascendancy is kinda irritating. Pendulum of Destruction switching on and off, back and forth. Mastermind of Discord is great, but it's another spell to remember to cast every few seconds. Paragon of Calamity, same thing. Reflect reduction is *awesome* but it's also something you can get elsewhere (or just reroll off of maps.) The up and down nature of the mitigation and damage is off putting to me though.

I guess I've just never really been in love with the Elementalist, and at the end of the day it's kinda bothering me to play her.

Templar looks much more consistent and stable, possibly a bit tankier - especially when used with the Sorrow of the Divine flask.


Scion looks... well like a Scion, but honestly pretty solid given that. 80 int is pretty nice, extra passives never hurt, and really Raider and Elementalist nodes look pretty solid. Pathfinder looks pretty solid as well TBH - Flasks are love, flasks are life.

Mara looks like he'll have a easier time keeping fortify up, move a lot faster overall (both walking and slamming around,) and do more raw damage. The former is just nice, but both of the latter are pretty big perks...


SO ... I know their strengths. What are the downsides to each though - other than not being able to be the other ones?

7 full key runs today - got all useful enchantments :3

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cmbyrd00 wrote:

I guess I've just never really been in love with the Elementalist, and at the end of the day it's kinda bothering me to play her.

Templar looks much more consistent and stable, possibly a bit tankier - especially when used with the Sorrow of the Divine flask.


Scion looks... well like a Scion, but honestly pretty solid given that. 80 int is pretty nice, extra passives never hurt, and really Raider and Elementalist nodes look pretty solid. Pathfinder looks pretty solid as well TBH - Flasks are love, flasks are life.

Mara looks like he'll have a easier time keeping fortify up, move a lot faster overall (both walking and slamming around,) and do more raw damage. The former is just nice, but both of the latter are pretty big perks...


SO ... I know their strengths. What are the downsides to each though - other than not being able to be the other ones?

mastermind of discord is automatically triggered whenver you place an orb of storms, which you have to refresh from time to time anyway to keep EO up.


my opinion: elementalist and inquisitor are the most stable and reliable classes. the downside of inquisitor is that you get tons of cast speed bonus from his ascendancy, so the class IMHO only makes sense as selfcast. moreover, some of his strongest sides only apply in bossfights. so imho he is the bossclearer among the different WI versions.

for general mapping, elementalist imho is the strongest. the downside of elementalist is that two of his 4 notable ascendancy points, paragon and pendulum, are worthless against bosses. the extra penetration from mastermind is great for bossfights, but has recently lost value relative to the other WI classes due to the introduction of the wise oak flask.

berserker has the best leech, but is also more susceptible to oneshots. he has the highest tooltip dps, but for endgame bossfights, he lacks the cast speed from inquisitor or the extra penetration from elementalist. ofc, berserker is better played as cwc since he gains next to no cast speed from the tree.

scion IMHO is the weakest of the classes and only excels at speedclearing easy maps up until about t11.

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Black_Gun wrote:

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cmbyrd00 wrote:

I guess I've just never really been in love with the Elementalist, and at the end of the day it's kinda bothering me to play her.

Templar looks much more consistent and stable, possibly a bit tankier - especially when used with the Sorrow of the Divine flask.


Scion looks... well like a Scion, but honestly pretty solid given that. 80 int is pretty nice, extra passives never hurt, and really Raider and Elementalist nodes look pretty solid. Pathfinder looks pretty solid as well TBH - Flasks are love, flasks are life.

Mara looks like he'll have a easier time keeping fortify up, move a lot faster overall (both walking and slamming around,) and do more raw damage. The former is just nice, but both of the latter are pretty big perks...


SO ... I know their strengths. What are the downsides to each though - other than not being able to be the other ones?

mastermind of discord is automatically triggered whenver you place an orb of storms, which you have to refresh from time to time anyway to keep EO up.


my opinion: elementalist and inquisitor are the most stable and reliable classes. the downside of inquisitor is that you get tons of cast speed bonus from his ascendancy, so the class IMHO only makes sense as selfcast. moreover, some of his strongest sides only apply in bossfights. so imho he is the bossclearer among the different WI versions.

for general mapping, elementalist imho is the strongest. the downside of elementalist is that two of his 4 notable ascendancy points, paragon and pendulum, are worthless against bosses. the extra penetration from mastermind is great for bossfights, but has recently lost value relative to the other WI classes due to the introduction of the wise oak flask.

berserker has the best leech, but is also more susceptible to oneshots. he has the highest tooltip dps, but for endgame bossfights, he lacks the cast speed from inquisitor or the extra penetration from elementalist. ofc, berserker is better played as cwc since he gains next to no cast speed from the tree.

scion IMHO is the weakest of the classes and only excels at speedclearing easy maps up until about t11.

so bosses witch/temp is your number 1?

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Black_Gun wrote:

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cmbyrd00 wrote:

Spoiler

I guess I've just never really been in love with the Elementalist, and at the end of the day it's kinda bothering me to play her.

Templar looks much more consistent and stable, possibly a bit tankier - especially when used with the Sorrow of the Divine flask.


Scion looks... well like a Scion, but honestly pretty solid given that. 80 int is pretty nice, extra passives never hurt, and really Raider and Elementalist nodes look pretty solid. Pathfinder looks pretty solid as well TBH - Flasks are love, flasks are life.

Mara looks like he'll have a easier time keeping fortify up, move a lot faster overall (both walking and slamming around,) and do more raw damage. The former is just nice, but both of the latter are pretty big perks...


SO ... I know their strengths. What are the downsides to each though - other than not being able to be the other ones?

Spoiler

mastermind of discord is automatically triggered whenver you place an orb of storms, which you have to refresh from time to time anyway to keep EO up.


my opinion: elementalist and inquisitor are the most stable and reliable classes. the downside of inquisitor is that you get tons of cast speed bonus from his ascendancy, so the class IMHO only makes sense as selfcast. moreover, some of his strongest sides only apply in bossfights. so imho he is the bossclearer among the different WI versions.

for general mapping, elementalist imho is the strongest. the downside of elementalist is that two of his 4 notable ascendancy points, paragon and pendulum, are worthless against bosses. the extra penetration from mastermind is great for bossfights, but has recently lost value relative to the other WI classes due to the introduction of the wise oak flask.

berserker has the best leech, but is also more susceptible to oneshots. he has the highest tooltip dps, but for endgame bossfights, he lacks the cast speed from inquisitor or the extra penetration from elementalist. ofc, berserker is better played as cwc since he gains next to no cast speed from the tree.

scion IMHO is the weakest of the classes and only excels at speedclearing easy maps up until about t11.

First of all, I appreciate your input. I'm genuinely not trying to devalue any of it, simply trying to ensure I'm understanding the mechanics at play here.

Mastermind of Discord / Orb of Storms: OoS and Ice Storm both have 5% crit chance per the wiki, and Ice Storm is being triggered ~3x/sec... why do you need OoS to keep EO running? I can see it being nice to help ease uptime if you're already casting it for MoD, but I'm failing to grasp how it's needed for EO uptime.


Inquisitor Cast Speed: Looking at all the cast speed in the tree/ascendency - including the sometimes stuff like on consecrated ground, and attacked recently - I get 77% cast speed. With a 1.0 base on Ice Storm, my math (stolen from wiki's page on cast speed) puts that at a 0.565 second cast time. That's substantially longer than even a low level CwC gem. Am I missing something?

Inquisitor Cast Speed (pt 2): Even if I am missing something with the cast speed, isn't the 1) extra damage (more modifier on ice storm + whatever the ray itself does) worth something, 2) the fire resistance debuff a pretty big deal, and 3) the mana cost reduction allowing you to pre-cast for bosses better has to come into play? Wouldn't those be worthwhile for CwC in their own right provided the cast speed was somewhat close? Cast speed is a nice Quality of Life boost for burning ray too, as it lets you spin faster.

Inquisitor Strong Against Bosses: I'm assuming the implication here is that he'll only really be able to utilize the consecrated ground bonuses against a boss, as any other time you're not in one place particularly long?

General Mapping Favoring Witch: I'm assuming this is largely due to 1) ignoring reflect entirely, and 2) the massive boosts provided by uber-buffed dual golems (120% damage, 60% crit chance to help keep EO up)?

Zerker One Shotted: I was assuming that the potential to be one-shot was somewhat higher, though with the mitigation provided by chaos golem, we're really only talking about what... 7% more damage taken? I'm aware that every bit matters, but aren't most big one-shot mechanics going to blow through the ES realistically achieved on these builds anyways?

Zerker Pen: Between CwC Scorching Ray and Wise Oak flask, are they really that far behind any more? I'm full aware that it used to be a much bigger deal, but seems like the last two patches both provided substantial boosts in this area. Does the 1.4x multiplier still not bridge the gap?

Scion: Yeah, she needs <3 for sure. I'm trying to push maps further this league than I have in the past, so wasn't seriously considering her anyways.


Thanks again for taking the time to help.

so question whats a good flask set up I kno dif bosses require dif ones as refered to in the boss guide but what do we need in general I see you use a lot of sulpher flasks compared to mine I feel like I might have to switch out the movement speed ones?

Thank you so much for this guide Kelvynn. Really having a lot of fun with it on my first ever PoE character. Very safe, beginner-friendly, and explained exceptionally well. It feels almost unfair having no issues cruising through content solo while many other builds get stuck with bosses or maps.

That being said, I have noticed that it's almost prohibitively expensive to get more ES after around the 7k mark, and it feels like I've been stonewalled out of endgame content unless I grind hundreds of hours for exalts. Here's my current gear set:





Once Discipline levels up to 20 (I vendor recipe'd it for 20Q earlier today so it's low atm) I would have just over 8000 ES, much less than the 10k+ I see many players running around with. Almost all gear that have higher ES on poe.trade costs double digits of exalts and are plainly unaffordable. How should I go about getting more survivability so I can farm higher tier maps/bosses? Is there a mistake that I have made in gearing? What should I be farming at this point? I can kill uber Izaro in about 3-5 seconds and can do regular Atziri, but T11/T12 map bosses still one-shot me.

EDIT> The mandatory Astramentis slot is also bothering me a little bit. I've come to learn that a lot of the higher ranked endgame players farm maps using Bisco's, and this build does not have the flexibility of using that in the amulet slot. Even ring choice is highly constricted which means I am unable to use MF rings like this without losing out massively on survivability:



How do I get magic find without crippling my accessory slots? Do I just have to keep an eye out for MF gloves/boots and such?

Also, I found out that The Whispering Ice can potentially be corrupted for some nice-sounding Vaal implicits. Is it worth the chaos investment to try and Vaal some 6-slot staves for either of the following?

- 0.2% of Fire Damage Leeched as Life
- Gems in this item are Supported by level 1 Increased Area of Effect

well I managed to hit 7.3k on my zerker theres not much more room for improvement without sinking a lot of currency into it at least its a lot better then 5.8k lol

upgraded my chest and gloves I will reroll a better belt at some point
but ya any other upgrades gear with higher int/resists I need either arnt for sale or cost exalts



also went with some rare jewels instead of turmoil for the extra int and they only cost 3-5 chaos compared to a 20/20 turmoil which is 20c+