[2.3] ChaosOrb Trapper ONE HIT UBER ATZIRI! Millions of DPS (with videos)

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Dromidas wrote:

I am curious about the mechanics though. Why is the number of stacks important since it is based on hit damage? Do stacks add up like power charges where as if you have 10 stacks of poison they all wear off at the same time but also keep increasing rather than wearing out independently?

Each poison stack has its own duration of how long it lasts (depending on when it started). Having increased duration on the tree (i.e. Potency Of Will) or gear/gems will increase this duration for the poison.

I'm going to throw out very simple numbers to explain the concept.

Let's assume you hit an enemy for 1000 chaos damage (non-firestorm) and it applies only 1 poison stack which does a total of 200. You've done 1200 total damage (over 2 seconds, as an example).

Now, imagine hitting the same enemy for 800 chaos damage (firestorm reference) and it applies 5 stacks of poison (at 80 damage each, with a total of 400 over 2 seconds). You've done a total of 1400 damage in 2 seconds. Which is more damage than the other skill that has a higher initial HIT damage.

Again, these are very simple numbers that I'm using.

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zabosnu wrote:

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Dromidas wrote:

I am curious about the mechanics though. Why is the number of stacks important since it is based on hit damage? Do stacks add up like power charges where as if you have 10 stacks of poison they all wear off at the same time but also keep increasing rather than wearing out independently?

Each poison stack has its own duration of how long it lasts (depending on when it started). Having increased duration on the tree (i.e. Potency Of Will) or gear/gems will increase this duration for the poison.

I'm going to throw out very simple numbers to explain the concept.

Let's assume you hit an enemy for 1000 chaos damage (non-firestorm) and it applies only 1 poison stack which does a total of 200. You've done 1200 total damage (over 2 seconds, as an example).

Now, imagine hitting the same enemy for 800 chaos damage (firestorm reference) and it applies 5 stacks of poison (at 80 damage each, with a total of 400 over 2 seconds). You've done a total of 1400 damage in 2 seconds. Which is more damage than the other skill that has a higher initial HIT damage.

Again, these are very simple numbers that I'm using.

Oh! I see what you mean. Even if Firestorm and Icetrap had a hypothetical equal damage, because firestorm applies that equal damage over multiple hits, it actually applies a LOT more poison.

That clears it up quite a lot, thank you!

Have you tried this build with ice trap instead of trap/ fire storm for mapping or trash clear? Just wondering if it would one shot trash? ( i know overall it would do much less damage)\

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Fhark wrote:

Have you tried this build with ice trap instead of trap/ fire storm for mapping or trash clear? Just wondering if it would one shot trash? ( i know overall it would do much less damage)\

It absolutely would. I run ice trap currently and with a somewhat similar skill tree it 1 shots everything other than bosses even on t15 maps (1 shot being 1 cluster of traps)

I think I'm going to modify my tree to focus more on poisons and ditch the cold->fire conversion from pyre and dump the extra points from that and crit into poison and chaos trees and see how it feels. That will let me run firestorm at full power I think so it'll be a good comparison. I'll also save mana from not running herald of ice which I can probably put towards um.. something undetermined yet.

https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAABAYAALDYRXyi2cgU9W9qjBa_JpUPq7TRYeIki8gMwzp2gongm7W1SOZYX7CExetjkx_KShEvNj1JE1FM1r4rCp2qrEfVLl3ybIx9W-jVDkhirCpN7hURlrTFPye3dQcef8bC7NvnX5iVLpMnBbVwUVlt8NVsC42_dm-zA88yj_pJUSL0UUfUI36wMhjsGFxAbRkwfDfUMHHYVGSqh8uX9Aj0jX1_K-0_3aibhqebUlPAVCP2VvpLeGo2dZ6XlT1fakNNkpANOkLPFUyzM3gxswQH0B_nOlfYg9vr5O_rG-BVxl8qBnBOn3p_

Here is my version of this build using life. Critique welcome.

Carcass Jack instead of Shav and Atziri's step. 37% evade, 40% dodge, 46% dodge spells.

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Dromidas wrote:

https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAABAYAALDYRXyi2cgU9W9qjBa_JpUPq7TRYeIki8gMwzp2gongm7W1SOZYX7CExetjkx_KShEvNj1JE1FM1r4rCp2qrEfVLl3ybIx9W-jVDkhirCpN7hURlrTFPye3dQcef8bC7NvnX5iVLpMnBbVwUVlt8NVsC42_dm-zA88yj_pJUSL0UUfUI36wMhjsGFxAbRkwfDfUMHHYVGSqh8uX9Aj0jX1_K-0_3aibhqebUlPAVCP2VvpLeGo2dZ6XlT1fakNNkpANOkLPFUyzM3gxswQH0B_nOlfYg9vr5O_rG-BVxl8qBnBOn3p_

Here is my version of this build using life. Critique welcome.

Carcass Jack instead of Shav and Atziri's step. 37% evade, 40% dodge, 46% dodge spells.

seems better than original tree.

I like that +duration nodes

Damage is pretty great, but it doesn't really feel much faster than ice trap though. The reason being that ice trap cool down is 1/2 that of 'Trap' so you get to throw twice as many traps.
The difference is sort of between throwing a mini nuke (ice trap) vs calling in an air strike (firestorm). Ice trap has instant damage and more accuracy. Firestorm has a bit of a delay and you need to be more careful where you throw it because you only get half as many traps out at once. The duration increase is definitely necessary for the firestorm to last long enough to make up for the throw cooldown.
Firestorm would certainly be better for places you can set up an ambush.

For gear I also managed to work a Sunblast in for additional damage plus to make traps go off if the mobs don't go over my traps quick enough. Since the slower cooldown I found that I can't really reach the 11 trap limit so my old traps occasionally just never fire without the sunburst.

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zabosnu wrote:

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Dromidas wrote:

I am curious about the mechanics though. Why is the number of stacks important since it is based on hit damage? Do stacks add up like power charges where as if you have 10 stacks of poison they all wear off at the same time but also keep increasing rather than wearing out independently?

Each poison stack has its own duration of how long it lasts (depending on when it started). Having increased duration on the tree (i.e. Potency Of Will) or gear/gems will increase this duration for the poison.

I'm going to throw out very simple numbers to explain the concept.

Let's assume you hit an enemy for 1000 chaos damage (non-firestorm) and it applies only 1 poison stack which does a total of 200. You've done 1200 total damage (over 2 seconds, as an example).

Now, imagine hitting the same enemy for 800 chaos damage (firestorm reference) and it applies 5 stacks of poison (at 80 damage each, with a total of 400 over 2 seconds). You've done a total of 1400 damage in 2 seconds. Which is more damage than the other skill that has a higher initial HIT damage.

Again, these are very simple numbers that I'm using.

I never said IceTrap would deal more total damage, i'm just saying that math doesnt work the way you think lol


again, using your own example: first skill ok, we assume poison is 20% of the first hit, so 1000 chaos = 200 poison damage over 2 seconds

second skill: you hit the same target for 800 off of FIVE hits, since it applies 5 stacks, it means that each hit was 1/5 of 800= 160 which means that every poison stacks would be doing 32 damage over 2 seconds (160/5) for a total of 32 x 5 damage = 160

so total damage is 800 + 160 = 960

this to show you that it only matters the TOTAL damage

What is fooling you is the TOTAL damage of a single firestorm which is HIGHER than the total damage of a single IceTrap, so, in the end you are going to deal more damage with firestorm simply because by nature its dps is higher

Also, there is absolutely no reason to not use duration nodes or support gems because they not only increase firestorm duration as a MORE multiplier, they also apply on the poison stacks

Is it more clear now?

when i farm, i use pyre + ice trap

when i do boss, i use our magma orb :D

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unlucky_child wrote:

when i farm, i use pyre + ice trap

when i do boss, i use our magma orb :D

Very nice (: