GD Thread Simulator

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johnKeys wrote:

should trade necessarily mean that ALL players need to - collectively - fuel it?

Well, yeah, assuming trade is it's own minigame. If they aren't trading, they aren't playing. Tautology.

But let's assume that you used a phrase more appropriate than "trade." For instance: should tuning the ARPG content around trade necessarily mean that ALL players need to - collectively - fuel trading?

No, you can play Path of Exile in hard mode if you want. Anuhart does.

But let's assume that you used a phrase more appropriate than "need to." For instance: should tuning the ARPG content around trade necessarily mean that ALL players are incentived to - collectively - fuel trading?

Here, my answer is... well, I could write a whole thread on it. It would be really off-topic.

The topic here isn't "I think it's really great/horrible that PoE is tuned (or not) for the economy." I might disagree with such opinions, in threads where such opinions are on-topic, but I can still respect them. It's just, like, people's opinions, man.

But I cannot respect motherfuckers calling something a simulator, when it isn't one.

This thread is about proper use of terminology, and phrasing things appropriately to say what one really means. So is this reply, if you didn't catch that from the start.

You could argue it is a trade simulator, since we do not exchange real goods here. So we're simulating a trade process, in that some data that stand for a good are traded for other data, also representing a good. Since those goods (unlike, for example, bitcoins) have no value outside of PoE, I think it is not entirely wrong to call it a simulation of trade.

Add to that the fact that language isn't only semantics but pragmatics as well. Obviously you understand what people mean (unlike the Alice and Humpty Dumpty) when they call it a trade simulator. The purpose of language is to be understood by others. So as long as this goal is achieved, language has been used correctly.

Now, there are some hardcore pragmatists who extend this to levels of gibberish that no one sane would call "correct" language, at least imo. But a bit of pragmatics is totally OK and helps avoiding topics such as this one.

I'm a grammar and spelling fan myself, but I mostly keep it to myself, although sometimes I cringe when I read stuff on the internet.
However, since I know I do make mistakes as well, I don't point that stuff out anymore.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

>> Clickbait title successful.
>> Begin linguistic rant.

I know Steam Greenlight has made adding "simulator" to the end of anything into memes, but for those of us who believe words should mean things, simulation refers to modeling a process in a way which gives the feel of performing that process, without actually performing the process.

<snip>

Good day, ladies and gentlemen.

A thread simulator is indeed possible, though I suspect it would keep the moderators very busy corralling it.

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scale_e wrote:

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NeroNoah wrote:

“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”

Yes, but why is a raven like a writing desk?

And how doth the little crocodile improve his shining tail?

After all, the elephant is a dainty bird,
it flits from bough to bough,
It makes its best in a rhubarb tree and whistles like a cow.

How doth the lithely Amazon,
Perk up her pony tail,
with Diadems of rare delight,
Whose sheen will never fail.

Perhaps by luck she chance upons,
A Titans for revenge,
The crackling doom is quite a sight
the lightning never ends

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

It's just, like, people's opinions, man.

But I cannot respect motherfuckers calling something a simulator, when it isn't one.

May I use that as my signature? It made my day THAT much better, seriously.

Woke up, clicked bait, world shattered.

I play Trade Simulator.

:O


Oh...

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

No, you can play Path of Exile in hard mode if you want. Anuhart does.

FeelsBetterMan. But I am undeserving, should be ProjectPT, he the man!!

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Mikrotherion wrote:

You could argue it is a trade simulator, since we do not exchange real goods here. So we're simulating a trade process, in that some data that stand for a good are traded for other data, also representing a good. Since those goods (unlike, for example, bitcoins) have no value outside of PoE, I think it is not entirely wrong to call it a simulation of trade.

One might also argue that real-money-transactions have been -and still are- happening in POE, D2, Guild wars, you name it. That being said, and sticking to the word "data", these binary strings have an actual value outside of POE.

On the other hand, a simulation of trade means that you are "pretending", or "acting" as if you exchanged one thing for another. However, when you buy a GCP for 2 chaos orbs, your 2 chaos orbs are gone for real, so is the GCP once you used it.

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Mikrotherion wrote:

Add to that the fact that language isn't only semantics but pragmatics as well. Obviously you understand what people mean (unlike the Alice and Humpty Dumpty) when they call it a trade simulator. The purpose of language is to be understood by others. So as long as this goal is achieved, language has been used correctly.

The problem is not understanding something, at all... The problem is how things are being worded/phrased, because biases spring to life based on the perception of individual opinions and the way they are expressed. Thus using incorrect/inaccurate words or phrases leads to a perception that is not as on point as it may have been intended.

Calling POE a "trading sim" is something players do, who are -more often than not- frustrated by the simple fact that trading offers advantages, if you learn how/when/why it is done. Funnily enough said players also complain about not "going full speed ahead" because they'd rather not trade, and instead wait for miracles to happen.

The moment someone claims that trading in POE is a "necessary evil", and thus the Hack'n'Slay is partly a trading-sim, said someone creates biases. At which point it is safe to say, that the description in question failed to express what it should have.

Came expecting thread about Grim Dawn and cool spell procs, left disappointed.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Woke up, clicked bait, world shattered.

I play Trade Simulator.

:O

It's okay, we all do it. Seriously, show me a PoE character which has never played trade simulator and is at a decent level.

No trade = hard mode
No trade simulator = extra hard mode?

Seriously, "no vendoring" would be a pretty tricky challenge.

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Sure_K4y wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

It's just, like, people's opinions, man.

But I cannot respect motherfuckers calling something a simulator, when it isn't one.

May I use that as my signature? It made my day THAT much better, seriously.

You don't need my permission.

"

Sure_K4y wrote:

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Mikrotherion wrote:

You could argue it is a trade simulator, since we do not exchange real goods here. So we're simulating a trade process, in that some data that stand for a good are traded for other data, also representing a good. Since those goods (unlike, for example, bitcoins) have no value outside of PoE, I think it is not entirely wrong to call it a simulation of trade.

One might also argue that real-money-transactions have been -and still are- happening in POE, D2, Guild wars, you name it. That being said, and sticking to the word "data", these binary strings have an actual value outside of POE.

On the other hand, a simulation of trade means that you are "pretending", or "acting" as if you exchanged one thing for another.

Indeed. We're exchanging data. No things are exchanged. We give value to those 1s and 0s, which are represented as pixels, making them look like things. Thus a trade is pretended or simulated.

However, I don't think PoE is a trading simulator - I have played for a very long time with hardly any trading at all. Mostly I sell some stuff I don't want to just give to the vendors. Never bought a piece of gear.