[2.6] The Curse Whisperer - Tri-Curse CI Whispering Ice EleRaider - Viable for Everything

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Kelvynn wrote:

Witch Elementalist looks to be super sexy indeed. Skyforth would help a lot there I guess, but then it'll be a high budget build and not new league-friendly. Pathing through the Marauder space is definitely possible. But the loss of Int will be painful regardless of it.

Hard to say without trying. I have a couple of unused Witches in Standard to reset and check it out once 2.3 is released. If it works, I can post a Witch version. But can't recommend it in the new league without trying first.

both my elementalist and my berserker tree provide 60 more int than the old tree when one takes all the stat conversions into account. they lose 40 int from the path to the scion elementalist node and provide one jewel socket less than the old tree. so overall, they trade one jewel socket for 20 int... not thaaaat big of a loss.

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Black_Gun wrote:

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Kelvynn wrote:

Witch Elementalist looks to be super sexy indeed. Skyforth would help a lot there I guess, but then it'll be a high budget build and not new league-friendly. Pathing through the Marauder space is definitely possible. But the loss of Int will be painful regardless of it.

Hard to say without trying. I have a couple of unused Witches in Standard to reset and check it out once 2.3 is released. If it works, I can post a Witch version. But can't recommend it in the new league without trying first.

both my elementalist and my berserker tree provide 60 more int than the old tree when one takes all the stat conversions into account. they lose 40 int from the path to the scion elementalist node and provide one jewel socket less than the old tree. so overall, they trade one jewel socket for 20 int... not thaaaat big of a loss.

It will be more. The two new Asc points are +40 Int that Witch won't have. And you will have to compensate for the loss of 22% all resists (lose the nodes under the Scion start but gain 6% as Elementalist) somehow, probably using gear that has more resists and less Int.

But Elementalist looks sooooo sexy. For me the main selling point is not even all the elemental damage, but the new 50% reduced reflect damage. Combined with AA (13% LESS damage from fire), Fortify (25% reduced damage from hits) and Paragon of Calamity (8% reduced damage from fire), that's (1 - 0.5 - 0.25 - 0.08) * (1 - 0.13) = 0.15 reflect damage taken, or 85% LESS. Not worrying about reflect anymore would be priceless.

I'm going to take a real good look at adapting this build to Elementalist. I don't see the Marauder Berserker version working well though.

honestly: why do you worry so much about reflect? in my experience, reflect is almost a no-issue, unless I'm careless in -max or ele weakness maps...

concerning the berserker version: I am well aware how unorthodox it looks, but I'm quite convinced that it will work fine. the movement and attack speed buffs it gives shouldnt be understimated for movement. also keep in mind that pain reaver now gives permanent mana leech, so that there is no more need to use warlords mark as an aura; making it part of the cwdt setup will be enough. the 35% mana that gets freed up can be used, for example, for purity of elements, which in turn would make up for the loss of res compared to the 2.2 tree.

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Black_Gun wrote:

honestly: why do you worry so much about reflect? in my experience, reflect is almost a no-issue, unless I'm careless in -max or ele weakness maps...

Because reflect was the last remaining thing that could cause a non-boss related death to a character using this build. I hate dying and I hate rerolling maps. With reflect out of the picture, there is a lot more safety and freedom in map mods.

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Black_Gun wrote:

concerning the berserker version: I am well aware how unorthodox it looks, but I'm quite convinced that it will work fine. the movement and attack speed buffs it gives shouldnt be understimated for movement. also keep in mind that pain reaver now gives permanent mana leech, so that there is no more need to use warlords mark as an aura; making it part of the cwdt setup will be enough. the 35% mana that gets freed up can be used, for example, for purity of elements, which in turn would make up for the loss of res compared to the 2.2 tree.

Movement and attack speed if you've been hit in the last 4 sec? That's not very useful.

Pain Reaver leeches only if you've killed in the last 4 sec. You can drop WM for trash, but it's still needed against bosses.

There are some possibilities (e.g. the worm flask), so it'll be interesting to see how it works out for you. But I don't see it being better than Scion or Elementalist Witch.

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Kelvynn wrote:

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Black_Gun wrote:

honestly: why do you worry so much about reflect? in my experience, reflect is almost a no-issue, unless I'm careless in -max or ele weakness maps...

Because reflect was the last remaining thing that could cause a non-boss related death to a character using this build. I hate dying and I hate rerolling maps. With reflect out of the picture, there is a lot more safety and freedom in map mods.

fair enough.

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Black_Gun wrote:

concerning the berserker version: I am well aware how unorthodox it looks, but I'm quite convinced that it will work fine. the movement and attack speed buffs it gives shouldnt be understimated for movement. also keep in mind that pain reaver now gives permanent mana leech, so that there is no more need to use warlords mark as an aura; making it part of the cwdt setup will be enough. the 35% mana that gets freed up can be used, for example, for purity of elements, which in turn would make up for the loss of res compared to the 2.2 tree.

Movement and attack speed if you've been hit in the last 4 sec? That's not very useful.

Pain Reaver leeches only if you've killed in the last 4 sec. You can drop WM for trash, but it's still needed against bosses.

There are some possibilities (e.g. the worm flask), so it'll be interesting to see how it works out for you. But I don't see it being better than Scion or Elementalist Witch.

I think you havent noticed the changes to pain reaver yet. In 2.3, it will provide 1% life and mana leech permanently. If you have killed in the past 4 seconds, 2% life and mana leech on top of that are added, for a total of 3%. This buff is a complete game-changer. ;) Thats why I say WM can be put into the cwdt setup when using pain reaver...

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Kelvynn wrote:

And you will have to compensate for the loss of 22% all resists (lose the nodes under the Scion start but gain 6% as Elementalist) somehow, probably using gear that has more resists and less Int.

Not really.

In the Marauder zone you have Diamond skin and the 3 passive points in its wheel which are directly connected to the pathing required to reach Unwavering Stance.

And they factor a total of +27% all res with 4 points invested.

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Black_Gun wrote:

I think you havent noticed the changes to pain reaver yet. In 2.3, it will provide 1% life and mana leech permanently. If you have killed in the past 4 seconds, 2% life and mana leech on top of that are added, for a total of 3%. This buff is a complete game-changer. ;) Thats why I say WM can be put into the cwdt setup when using pain reaver...

The reddit post missed it, but I see it now. It is a big deal indeed! So now Marauder has the leech we used to have... Very interesting! You should be able to let go of the WM aura or avoid using Life Leech gem. But you will still need one of them against top bosses I think. 1% leech alone won't be enough.

I see another good buff to Berserker: +25% attack speed if you haven't killed recently. That's great for movement with Leap Slam across the map and for getting Fortify faster in boss fights.

But I still like Elementalist better. It's gonna be so OP! :)

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djnat wrote:

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Kelvynn wrote:

And you will have to compensate for the loss of 22% all resists (lose the nodes under the Scion start but gain 6% as Elementalist) somehow, probably using gear that has more resists and less Int.

Not really.

In the Marauder zone you have Diamond skin and the 3 passive points in its wheel which are directly connected to the pathing required to reach Unwavering Stance.

And they factor a total of +27% all res with 4 points invested.

True. That's about the same as the Scion resist cluster, just comes in much later in the levels.

What sorts of changes would happen to this build for 2.3?

hi!i was thinking about playing WI in the next league but the berseker nerfed really hard.is the leech from WM enough for bosses?is the life leech gem now necessary?what are your thoughts about this build now?its NOT A DEAD build for sure just need some changes.im thinking about just elementalist or occulist should be fine now.anyway thats my thoughts!i would love to hear yours!

From previous post in this section and my own tree planner, I would go for elementalist at a start of the league. Besides it probably being a easier way into WI as most of the tree is closer by, the elementalist ascendency nodes look extremely good.

Berserker will work similarly, but I don't think that 1 extra gem (let's say 44% more of controlled destruction, assuming elementalist runs life leech) + 40% more damage (aspect of carnage) will out do liege of primordial, paragon of calamity, pendulum of destruction and mastermind of discord.

Then again, I haven't done the maths so we will probably see on Friday next week :)