Quick fix for the labyrinth: Orb of Enchantment

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Before: if you don't run the lab you can't enchant yourself, but if you trade you can buy enchanted items off players who do

After: if you don't run the lab you can't enchant yourself, but if you trade you can buy enchanting items off players who do

In all honesty, the only impact of this suggestion would be that it makes lab-running (and flipping off lab-runners) better. Instead of storing a 2x2 item to sell, you store ten of those items in a 1x1. Instead of lab-runners taking the risk of RNG, you push it onto the end-user of currency.

Do I think PoE needs even more trade-centric advantage? Noop.

So no to this suggestion.

For my build i need a hat with very specific stats:


I spend a long time finding it, because getting the mods right, can be extremely hard. As it is now, if i do not intent to (or are not able to) run the lab, i have two options to enchant it:

1. i can find another one, with the stats i need, and the enchantment i need. The chance of this even existing is extreamely slim, and the chance that it would be impossible to pay, is quite large.

2. I can hand it over to some stranger, paying him to enchant it. This might work once or twice, but at some point, i will run into a scammer, and never see my hat again.

With the changes i am sugesting, i can do something similar to the later, but in a much safer and more logical way. My point is, that there is a huge difference between your before and after scenario, and buying pre-enchanted items is only really possible, when you are looking for a unique.

You expect this Orbs to be cheap do you... they wouldn't. Farming enough currency to buy one would likely take longer than doing the labyrinth. Considering the power they grant they likely be 1exalt upwards, at least if I would be GGG I would ensure that they are.

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Emphasy wrote:

You expect this Orbs to be cheap do you... they wouldn't. Farming enough currency to buy one would likely take longer than doing the labyrinth. Considering the power they grant they likely be 1exalt upwards, at least if I would be GGG I would ensure that they are.

No I dont. Like all other items and currency in this game, i expect its price to be determined by supply and demand. It would be so expencive that people wanna farm it, and cheap enough that people wanna buy them.

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Emphasy wrote:

You expect this Orbs to be cheap do you... they wouldn't. Farming enough currency to buy one would likely take longer than doing the labyrinth.

You don't understand market forces in the slightest, do you?

Prices of orbs are dictated by supply and demand. If one could NEVER get the currency to buy an Orb of Enchantment in the time it'd take to run labyrinth... More people would run labyrinth. No one would buy the orbs because they'd farm 'em themselves. And with no one buying, but more and more people producing them?

...Well, price would go down, as people undercut others to try to sell their spare orbs first. A small undercut wouldn't be immediately hit by a purchase, because people would still consider that too much when they could just do a Labyrinth run.

In the end, prices would sink until there were ENOUGH players that went "huh, that's actually worth just farming orbs for to skip the Labyrinth."

It's the same way it works with all currency. The price of chaos orbs is dictated mostly by the ratio of people farming Dried Lake/etc. for the recipe versus the people that would rather just buy chaos orbs instead of farm.

The thing is, to ensure that running the labyrinth is worth it, the orb would have to have a certain price in actually creating it. If you just get the orb for free on the end of the run, it would be totally stupid to actually enchant items, since the orb is just better.

The other issue is that the value of Glove enchants is totally different to Helmet enchants. So using the Orb on gloves is also always a bad idea, since the power you can get from the right helmet enchant is so much higher than those you get from gloves. This would mean that basically no player would have glove enchants, since he could always get a helmet enchant for that.

Right now you cannot carry those enchants away, so there isnt really an issue with that. The chance to have a high priced item with you or in stash that you could enchant to sell later on is really low, since lab runs don't take that long and you get a lot of enchants per day, so just putting a few on gloves to get a decent one is not really wasted, since a crap enchant does not have any value, although this orb would have value.

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Prices of orbs are dictated by supply and demand.

Have you ever seen a fuses being worth more than 8 alts? No. When GGG sets a fix price on something it is that. And they have to do this with freely moveable enchants. They can't just let you carry away those Orbs for free. Even the enchants are almost too good for the little effort it takes to get them, but the orb would take away the randomness from the lab runner and puts it on the Orb buyer making lab runs way too powerful. There are already people who need less than 10 minutes for a 4+ key run in merciless, often with the benefit of having powerful darkshrines in the labyrinth (yeah for corrupting tempest). So GGG likely would have to put a price on carrying the enchant away without using it. And that would be its minimum price.

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Emphasy wrote:

The thing is, to ensure that running the labyrinth is worth it, the orb would have to have a certain price in actually creating it. If you just get the orb for free on the end of the run, it would be totally stupid to actually enchant items, since the orb is just better.

This makes no sense at all. The value of the orb, would be in its ability to enchant. This is the same with all currency. For example, in a lot of cases it is better to just use chaos orbs for trading, but sometimes you need its ability to alter rare items, and then you use it, because its worth it. Its exactly the same for the orb of enchantment.

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Emphasy wrote:

The other issue is that the value of Glove enchants is totally different to Helmet enchants. So using the Orb on gloves is also always a bad idea, since the power you can get from the right helmet enchant is so much higher than those you get from gloves. This would mean that basically no player would have glove enchants, since he could always get a helmet enchant for that.

This is already the case. Glove enchants are not as good as helmet enchants, so why should i run the lab to get glove enchants, when i can run it to get helmet enchants? Introducing this orb would not change that situation at all.

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This is already the case. Glove enchants are not as good as helmet enchants, so why should i run the lab to get glove enchants, when i can run it to get helmet enchants? Introducing this orb would not change that situation at all.

Because there are a lot less glove enchants. Getting the right Glove enchant is a lot easier and quickly done. If you get an Orb however you can carry away, this Orb will have a fixed value. If you use the enchant you likely get a terrible helmet enchant, you do not need (or that doesn't fit the item you enchant) or more likely a useable glove enchant. Boots are somewhere in between.

The Orb though means you do not have to gamble. And if you don't have to gamble, the option with less variance suddenly loses all appeal.

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This makes no sense at all. The value of the orb, would be in its ability to enchant. This is the same with all currency. For example, in a lot of cases it is better to just use chaos orbs for trading, but sometimes you need its ability to alter rare items, and then you use it, because its worth it. Its exactly the same for the orb of enchantment.

To make it a bit clearer. If the Orb is just a present at the end, people that never really tried the labyrinth all that much have no incentive to do so. Well unless they have to run it still for ascendancies... although people are even unhappy about those 3 runs. The Orb should be considerable expensive to encourage doing the lab yourself.

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Emphasy wrote:

The Orb though means you do not have to gamble.

What? The orb aplies a random enchantment just like the one at the end of the lab. How is that less of a gamble?

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Emphasy wrote:

although people are even unhappy about those 3 runs.

This is exaclty my point. This orb would spare people the 300 runs that follows, and leave them to people who actually like to run the lab.

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What? The orb aplies a random enchantment just like the one at the end of the lab. How is that less of a gamble?

Because you can just sell the orb and not gamble at all? ^.-

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This is exaclty my point. This orb would spare people the 300 runs that follows, and leave them to people who actually like to run the lab.

But that is the issue. They should be encouraged to run the lab, by giving the lab runners a fee to get a tradeable orb they can hand out, which they likely pass on to the ones wanting those orbs. The price on the orb also ensures that if too few people run the labyrinth that the maximum earnings won't skyrocket. And it ensures that enchanting your own items is actually better than getting the orb, since it is free.

Adding a new orb is an interesting idea. I think it would make the labyrinth lovers happy because then they can run the lab even if they don't want any enchanted item but still receive a currency orb. People that don't want to run the labyrinth then wouldn't have to. The market forces of supply and demand would keep orb values in proper perspectives. As far as arguments about the enchants somehow being more or less powerful when being applied by an orb or by an enchant at the end of a labyrinth run, I don't really understand the difference but GGG could easily fiddle with the RNG when applying the orb on an item if they needed to.