SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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andreicde wrote:

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raics wrote:

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

But, you're investing a disproportionate amount of significance in a minor event (ie: a survey) that was pretty much guaranteed to go how it did, given the strongly negative feelings a multitude of players have about lab.

Hell, maybe I am, it's hard to say how much of the ginormous amount of daily freeform feedback is getting where it should. Based on their comments and reactions I'm assuming it isn't much, but who knows.

I already mentioned the reason they can't ask those other questions like this. What they did in the thread is voluntary feedback, it's much cheaper and faster than random sample and is very useful if you want to learn specific things when the subject's disposition is not important. For like/dislike I'm afraid you'd have to use the random sample, that's the phone thing you mentioned and it's what they would do if they really wanted to find out what the playerbase thinks about the lab. USA elections were a very good example of this, they used the voluntary survey to try showing that Hillary is winning and random sample would show that the opposite is true. Sure, they did it on purpose because I don't think they hired a total idiot for the campaign but it still shows you need a proper tool if you want real results.

The problem is that even in that voluntary survey GGG did not asked the right questions. If you look at the questions, it mentions if it was done solo or not, used silver keys or not, silver caches and the level . It lacks critical questions though such as:

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-What do you think of the current state of the traps in labyrinth?''
-What would you think could be done to improve labyrinth?
-What are your current thoughts on the Itzaro fight phases?''

They did ask the right questions, they didn't ask your questions though.
They needed specific answers, you do not know exactly what they were doing.

They needed specific answers.
Not "what do you think about that ?" which would give hundreds if not thousands of different kind of answers to treat eventually.

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andreicide wrote:

So while GGG might not want to tackle with all issues, if they ignore the important points it will still not change much and possibly still bring a lot of heat from the lab.

No they don't, they have not bee ignoring anything.
They stated couple of times in podcasts ( and probably other medias ) their position about the lab.
How some people here refuse to accept that GGG did say those things is silly, those are the ones ignoring GGG's communication, not the other way around.

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Wp_blitzi wrote:

And this is the proof, there are no lab hater or player with lacking skill, the lab was just not properly design and we are a big family loving each other ;-). See u guys in the new coming lab!

Have you actually read the content of that thread ??
What the op is asking for is completely different from what is being done now, the design of the lab seldom changes, it just becomes incremental and more rewards are given from silver caches.
But the merc lab stays the same, the uber lab stays the same, the first ones become just a bit more easy.

And there definitely are players lacking skills, obviously.
If people start saying that they have no problem with the normal/cruel lab but still with merc/uber later on ... that will be an obvious proof of it.

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Turtledove wrote:

Here's my personal history on this issue, after first loading PoE onto my computer in July 2013, it was the only game I played until Labyrinth was released. Once labyrinth was release I started playing other games about half time and PoE the other half time. I did that for a few leagues but finally just stopped playing PoE altogether due to the not fun labyrinth.

Further expanding on this to see how illogical it is that you "stopped playing"

The lab takes a small, very small portion of your playtime. The adjustments might remove 33% of the time it takes in general and you seem to be jumping up and down in joy.


You let one piece of content, that is a super small portion of playtime ruin the whole game for you?

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I don't think the word "victory" is appropriate. All that's occurred is a minor mitigation of the abomination. The game is still 1/4 of the game it was before the lab was inflicted on us.

Explain

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goetzjam wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Here's my personal history on this issue, after first loading PoE onto my computer in July 2013, it was the only game I played until Labyrinth was released. Once labyrinth was release I started playing other games about half time and PoE the other half time. I did that for a few leagues but finally just stopped playing PoE altogether due to the not fun labyrinth.

Further expanding on this to see how illogical it is that you "stopped playing"

The lab takes a small, very small portion of your playtime. The adjustments might remove 33% of the time it takes in general and you seem to be jumping up and down in joy.


You let one piece of content, that is a super small portion of playtime ruin the whole game for you?

I didn't let the labyrinth ruin the whole game. That's just silly. GGG implemented the labyrinth, GGG ruined the whole game for me and many others when they implemented content that wasn't fun and made it mandatory to play their otherwise very wonderful great game.

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Turtledove wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Here's my personal history on this issue, after first loading PoE onto my computer in July 2013, it was the only game I played until Labyrinth was released. Once labyrinth was release I started playing other games about half time and PoE the other half time. I did that for a few leagues but finally just stopped playing PoE altogether due to the not fun labyrinth.

Further expanding on this to see how illogical it is that you "stopped playing"

The lab takes a small, very small portion of your playtime. The adjustments might remove 33% of the time it takes in general and you seem to be jumping up and down in joy.


You let one piece of content, that is a super small portion of playtime ruin the whole game for you?

I didn't let the labyrinth ruin the whole game. That's just silly. GGG implemented the labyrinth, GGG ruined the whole game for me and many others when they implemented content that wasn't fun and made it mandatory to play their otherwise very wonderful great game.

You are letting one thing that you dislike that takes a small amount of your overall time somehow ruin the experience for you.

Ok sure whatever you say.

Can we please address the problems with ascendancy instead of making the easy part easier?

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Shaboom wrote:

Can we please address the problems with ascendancy instead of making the easy part easier?

You mean, the never ending flooding circle jerking QQing problem in the forums ?
Yes please, I wish that GGG would address that ...

(Altho it seems to be getting a bit better)

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goetzjam wrote:

You are letting one thing that you dislike that takes a small amount of your overall time somehow ruin the experience for you.

Ok sure whatever you say.

Your argument would have been extremely convincing 30 years ago. In this day and age, there's many many great choices for other fun games to choose from. It doesn't make sense to me to play through not fun content that I hate when there are so many other good options to choose from.

That does not really matter.
He is trying to be pragmatic.
You aren't.


If that small portion that you dislike has ruined the whole game, you must not have liked the game that much in the first place, imho.

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Fruz wrote:

That does not really matter.
He is trying to be pragmatic.
You aren't.


If that small portion that you dislike has ruined the whole game, you must not have liked the game that much in the first place, imho.

Next time you eat your favorite food tell whoever is near you to throw a cockroach inside it and tell me if the food is ruined or not, maybe you didn't like it in the first place too for such a small insect to have ruined your meal, right? The lab is INTRUSIVE and ALIENATING and PUKE-INDUCING just like that cockroach that ruined your dinner.

Neither you, and certainly not goetzam are pragmatic, you are stuck inside an otherwordly point of view that doesnt make sense even in the slightest. And some audacity claiming things you are one of the main culprits that are the way they are.

Now are you going to add anything to the thread or going to argue semantics and offtopic mumbling? Cause honestly all you do is teasing, muffling and vexing, you are literally useless in this thread and its purpose. You do not have even the decency to talk about the suggestions in the OP, or even things that are real, like GGG's knowledge and acceptance that the lab is problematic (shown by their constant efforts to make it more sufferable), or that its quite the different game, or that they literally copied arcade elements from 80' and 90' games, or that there is no reasoning besides monetary issues not to add alternatives and saying the nonsense you and your merry band of white knightlings do, or even try and rebuttal the 5 paragraphs in the op that are the reason behind its creation or you know the rest of the most constructive feedback post ever given in the game's forums (thanks to others too, a big part is team work)......

Or not, better keep talking about how we want power for free (for fucks shake like we want to rival and conquer the world with that power, we just want to fully enjoy and have fun with the game ffs ...), or that we should get better, or we should keep the puke in our throats and do it, or leave the game, or that "PoE is PeO" and "Lab is Bal" and "Bug is Gub" or or or..... yes better do those last mentioned they are very informative and constructive. Jorah Mormont has an excuse for becoming a brick, whats yours?

#FeelsLABman

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Turtledove wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

You are letting one thing that you dislike that takes a small amount of your overall time somehow ruin the experience for you.

Ok sure whatever you say.

Your argument would have been extremely convincing 30 years ago. In this day and age, there's many many great choices for other fun games to choose from. It doesn't make sense to me to play through not fun content that I hate when there are so many other good options to choose from.

30 years ago there were far better choice of games. and companies who made PC games made them for individuals with actual brain to problem solve, not like now where you have a choice of which colored popcorn the next fast food game is going to give you to chew on lazily. hell, the reason Ive played a ton of poe because it WASNT like other 'fun games'.

I think you got this backwards.