SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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NeroNoah wrote:

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Dos_Fafner wrote:

No other way to say it: I 100% disagree. While I do not find the lab to be overly difficult there are many that do. If it was not at least a little challenging then there wouldn't be 30+ pages of crying about how "unfair" it is that not everyone can Ascend. If it was a matter of clicking 1 potion or paying 1 chaos this whole thread would disappear. Put briefly, I think you are being dishonest with yourself. If it was so easy as to be irrelevant no one would complain, well some people might complain that it was "too" easy but it would certainly be less.

There are other two subgroups: those with technical problems (but I wonder if it makes any sense to say the labyrinth sucks because of that, rather than PoE sucks) and those that hate that kind of gameplay so much that they'd rather quit playing the game (irrational, but whatever floats their boat).

IRRATIONAL? NeroNoah, I'm sorry that I apparently cannot communicate this seemingly very simple concept to you. Let me try again. I hate game play like Mario/Prince of Persia/Tomb Raider. I have never liked it and never will. PoE Labyrinth is this same kind of game play that I hate. I used to love playing PoE. It would be irrational for me to play crap that I hate like Labyrinth. This is because I play games for fun not to force myself to play crap that is boring tedious and not fun. Therefore until there's an option to play PoE while bypassing boring and tedious game play like Labyrinth/Mario/Prince of Persia/Tomb Raider I will not be able to enjoy PoE like I used to.

Since there is a portion of posters that keep harping on this, I should also mention that it really does not have to do with difficulty. I do not hate this kind of game play because it is hard or difficult. I hate it because I find it boring tedious and not fun. It does not have to do with difficulty, it has to do with GGG introducing a new style of game play in the labyrinth that is different from normal PoE game play. Some people, like me, find this Labyrinth game play boring tedious and not fun.

I hope that this time I've finally explained myself.

Nah, I get that you hate Prince of Persia, but you are in the same position than self found people that get locked out of something because they don't like a part of the game, and keep making threads about the whole subject from time to time (self found league thread makes this one seem like shit). They keep playing even if they hate the trade simulator aspect of the game. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to abandon the game for one feature.

if you hate lab,

there are many people who run it for a small fee.
- I run it and charge people before the final boss fight.
- people who die alot often pay me a little extra as thanks when they finally get through =)

you only need to worry about keeping yourself alive with potions.

If you keep disconnecting from the lab, try plugging into your modem with a wired connection.
Or schedule to do the run outside of prime time to get your ascendancy points.

The lab is a good way to test a builds survivability.
Though the pacing should be a bit faster of it in general.

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NeroNoah wrote:

Nah, I get that you hate Prince of Persia, but you are in the same position than self found people that get locked out of something because they don't like a part of the game, and keep making threads about the whole subject from time to time (self found league thread makes this one seem like shit). They keep playing even if they hate the trade simulator aspect of the game. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to abandon the game for one feature.

I disagree. Ascendancy points are build enabling features of the game that are gated behind something that I fucking hate. EVERY time the client stutter steps into/through a trap and I die I immediately think about how I just spent somewhere between 15-30 minutes doing something I didn't want to do in the first place all so I could unlock a feature THAT THE GAME IS BALANCED AROUND.

I love the diversity of this game. I have all but quit playing this expansion because after my third time through the labyrinth I realized that it's not worth the opportunity cost for me. I get that people can and do farm the labyrinth daily for w/e the fuck they like about it. I can barely stand to even attempt it. I have multiple toons that will probably never have an ascendancy because it's content that kind of makes me want to buy a plane ticket to New Zealand and slap someone in the face. It feels like playing tetris with lag only it takes upwards of 30 min per 2 points and I don't get a giant rocket at the end to give me a warm fuzzy. At the very fucking least I shouldn't struggle to run a level 33 dungeon on a level 80 CI toon because of mechanics.

I don't really care if the labyrinth stays how it is or even in the game but gating what will be required content within an xpack or two has already caused me to seek my entertainment elsewhere.

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Celosar wrote:

I disagree. Ascendancy points are build enabling features of the game that are gated behind something that I fucking hate.

Yep, just as trade for self found players. Try getting a Voltaxic self found.

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Celosar wrote:

EVERY time the client stutter steps into/through a trap and I die I immediately think about how I just spent somewhere between 15-30 minutes doing something I didn't want to do in the first place all so I could unlock a feature THAT THE GAME IS BALANCED AROUND.

That's a problem on performance. I have been there before (I remember my first fight with Dominus and how FPS dropped to 10). You should be patient until is solved (see development manifesto). The game is not balanced around AC points yet, and it won't be probably until Act V.

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Celosar wrote:

I love the diversity of this game. I have all but quit playing this expansion because after my third time through the labyrinth I realized that it's not worth the opportunity cost for me. I get that people can and do farm the labyrinth daily for w/e the fuck they like about it. I can barely stand to even attempt it. I have multiple toons that will probably never have an ascendancy because it's content that kind of makes me want to buy a plane ticket to New Zealand and slap someone in the face. It feels like playing tetris with lag only it takes upwards of 30 min per 2 points and I don't get a giant rocket at the end to give me a warm fuzzy. At the very fucking least I shouldn't struggle to run a level 33 dungeon on a level 80 CI toon because of mechanics.

I don't really care if the labyrinth stays how it is or even in the game but gating what will be required content within an xpack or two has already caused me to seek my entertainment elsewhere.

Go ahead, you lose the rest of PoE for that, that's the reason I say it doesn't make a lot of sense. Keep asking for the AC points if you wish, but the rest of the game remains.

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NeroNoah wrote:

Nah, I get that you hate Prince of Persia, but you are in the same position than self found people that get locked out of something because they don't like a part of the game, and keep making threads about the whole subject from time to time (self found league thread makes this one seem like shit). They keep playing even if they hate the trade simulator aspect of the game. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to abandon the game for one feature.

I disagree that it is the same as self found people. Self found people are playing the same basic game play. Labyrinth game play is closer to the boring tedious and not fun game play in Mario/Prince of Persia/Tomb Raider. When I started playing PoE almost two years ago that crap wasn't in the game. GGG made a fundamental change to PoE game play when they introduced labyrinth. Then when they gated ascendancy points behind it they made it almost mandatory that the labyrinth be played.

Your suggestion to put up with the boring tedious and not fun portion of PoE might have been reasonable twenty or thirty years ago. There are so many great alternatives out there now that it would not make sense to suffer through the boring tedious and not fun labyrinth. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me to put up with it? I don't fault other people if they hate labyrinth but decide to put up with it. It is a subjective decision but, it is not irrational whichever way it is decided.

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Turtledove wrote:

I disagree that it is the same as self found people. Self found people are playing the same basic game play. Labyrinth game play is closer to the boring tedious and not fun game play in Mario/Prince of Persia/Tomb Raider. When I started playing PoE almost two years ago that crap wasn't in the game. GGG made a fundamental change to PoE game play when they introduced labyrinth. Then when they gated ascendancy points behind it they made it almost mandatory that the labyrinth be played.

Your suggestion to put up with the boring tedious and not fun portion of PoE might have been reasonable twenty or thirty years ago. There are so many great alternatives out there now that it would not make sense to suffer through the boring tedious and not fun labyrinth. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me to put up with it? I don't fault other people if they hate labyrinth but decide to put up with it. It is a subjective decision but, it is not irrational whichever way it is decided.

I'm not telling you to play the labyrinth. I'm telling you the rest of PoE remains while the whole labyrinth thing gets solved (or not). It's as mandatory as you want it to be, at least until GGG balances red maps around that. Also, self found has big implications in basic gameplay as any map sustain guide can show (it's a resource management/economy game).

While irrational sounded dickish (sorry for that), you seem to like the game enough to complain, but not enough to play it despite flaws.

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Regulator wrote:

There is absolute no downside in ungating the AC points, people who like the lab will still run it

Personal preferences I guess, but the reason I like lab is because I "have" to run it.
Only thing I dislike is doing trials on all 3 diffs.

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NeroNoah wrote:

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you seem to like the game enough to complain, but not enough to play it despite flaws.

Yes, I loved playing PoE. What you apparently missed was how badly the labyrinth game play turns me off. :-) Seriously, there really are other really good games, even in the ARPG category there are some nice choices. Perhaps at the end of this league GGG will make ascendancy points available to people without going through the labyrinth? If so then I'll be back.

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nadakuu wrote:

if you hate lab,

there are many people who run it for a small fee.
- I run it and charge people before the final boss fight.
- people who die alot often pay me a little extra as thanks when they finally get through =)

you only need to worry about keeping yourself alive with potions.

If you keep disconnecting from the lab, try plugging into your modem with a wired connection.
Or schedule to do the run outside of prime time to get your ascendancy points.

The lab is a good way to test a builds survivability.
Though the pacing should be a bit faster of it in general.

Thank you for the advice mate really do, but the thread is not about this. We dont find the labyrinth hard or difficult we find it boring and alienating. So unless there is a way for us to skip the whole arcade part of this atrocity your help is well... not helping. And besides that in an HC environment its unacceptable and foundamentaly wrong and faulty to buy kills (unless you really have big performance/stability issues).

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Norodian wrote:

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Regulator wrote:

There is absolute no downside in ungating the AC points, people who like the lab will still run it

Personal preferences I guess, but the reason I like lab is because I "have" to run it.
Only thing I dislike is doing trials on all 3 diffs.

Im not sure what you tried to do here. So you are saying you enjoy the labyrinth cause you are forced to do it as a chore? But you dislike the trial chore? So you like being forced to run labyrinth but do not like the fact that you are forced to run trials? Isnt this statement a bit controversial and contradictive? Maybe i didnt understand what you tried to say here was.

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NeroNoah wrote:

Nah, I get that you hate Prince of Persia, but you are in the same position than self found people that get locked out of something because they don't like a part of the game, and keep making threads about the whole subject from time to time (self found league thread makes this one seem like shit). They keep playing even if they hate the trade simulator aspect of the game. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to abandon the game for one feature.

I actually loved me some Prince of Persia and all the similar games when they came out, you see i was a teenager once and that playstyle was really thrilling for me. Besides that those games were arcade or action/adventures, that playstyle was true to themselves, they had integrity and where not bastardized, you actually played them for that exactly reason. If all of a sudden a trade simulator was introduced in those games it would had the same fucking effect labyrinth has for PoE

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Regulator wrote:

For starters its the first time in an expansion that GGG gated such content. With "such" i mean immaterial content aka the ascendancy points that feel way too important, personal and flavourful for character customization. After all this is an ARPG game where min-maxing and character creation/optimization matter a ton.

Thats basically the answer to your claim about trade. Its actually the first one in the OP, shall i advice you to re-read or its too late now?
Basically trade locks easy item access, labyrinth locks skill points, refusing to trade allows you to play and do everything in the game, refusing to do the labyrinth locks you out of new character optimization choices and the only thing worthy in the new expansion. Items =/= skill choices .

Labyrinth is the evidence that GGG got out of their usual design philosophy, and instead of putting new fresh mechanics in the game in an "otherwise optional" expansion, they cloned old as fuck designs and implemented them in the game. And as i said before its ok to experiment and i support their move thats why im asking for labyrinth to stay and even be buffed and made more reasonably fun, but the gated AC is as bad of a design choice as it can possibly get.

Oh, and since you seem confident and determined about the matter, why is it that you skip so many questions directed at you and the white knights in general? Avoiding to respond to some arguments/points only makes our already strong case stronger. Selectively responding to only a few of them seems a bit naive and insolent. I like conversing and debating but when the other side literally has nothing of value to say its getting boring and repetitive. Up your game.

That was initially pointed towards you (and the rest of the WK as usual) and as with many other arguments you choose to neglect it.