SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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ventiman wrote:

Easy solution all lab hater stop playing

2 outcomes
The fairytale of a vocal minority is right
Or it is not and as a chain reaction you will have a followed mass exodus

It will take about 2 weeks till the population will notice that most of them will never experience the updated endgame

I'll probably give AoW a whirl, but without entering the labyrinth or ascending any characters (the same thing I did in Prophecy). I'd be astonished if AoW addresses anything about the lab and ascendancy classes, and 3.0 is so far off that it's become irrelevant.

I have the feeling from the number of posts from new/returning players, and what seems like wider publicity for PoE, that AoW is going to start off with a lot of players, and the question will be how well it retains them. The lab is, most likely, a player sink for GGG, with (just my guess) very few players signing up because they want to experience its "pleasures" and "challenges", and many long-time and new players quitting because of it. But the rewards/bribes at the end of the lab may well be enough to stem the flow.

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Fruz wrote:

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morbo wrote:

* Make it solo only. No carrying, carrying is lame and ascension is a personal thing.

Disagree on that part, some builds are much more suited for group play.

What could be done ( but I do not think that GGG would want it ) is close the back door once Izaro dies, or just wait that every member of the party enters the arena before Izaro pops.

I think Solo only is a great idea, carries are cheating.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

Disagree on that part, some builds are much more suited for group play.

What could be done ( but I do not think that GGG would want it ) is close the back door once Izaro dies, or just wait that every member of the party enters the arena before Izaro pops.

I think Solo only is a great idea, carries are cheating.

Did you just read what you quoted ?
Do you understand the point that I was making ?

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Perq wrote:

Also GGG, pls gib Shavronnes cuz I cna no do Low-life buld. And sum fri exultards. Pls ggg, pls.

Few months ago you had no Ascendancy points. Neither you could get God-tier items.
And now when we have Ascendancy, these points are mandatory, and you should get them for free, but items are not. What you fail to understand is that these points are rewards as much as items.

And if you get rewards for free, they are not rewards anymore. So no, giving them for free won't please everyone.

I can buy items from others, without having to do anything (besides farming the necessary currency). Ascendency points however I can't buy. Even when I pay for a rush I occasionally have to dodge traps and waste my time in the boring lab, while I would favour killing stuff (example: doing maps).

Furthermore, there are plenty of builds who can perfectly go without any super rare uniques. Most builds only need cheap uniques you can find/buy everywhere or some mediocre rare items with good life/res/dps. AC points however are pretty much needed by everyone. You can't compete with others in terms of clearing speed and/or survivability without them.

So: Items and AC points are just not compareable after all.

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morbo wrote:

Moving your avatar around to avoid getting hit by enemy object X, is ARPG gameplay enough.

D3 = Poe = Mario

They all are basically creating stimulants in the form of electrodes that travel through your optical nerve, inducing a chemical response in your brain, which in turn produces a kinetic response to your limbs and fingers in order to press buttons. Every game ever created is the same, so people should like Poe as much as D3 and Mario.

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ShaUrley wrote:

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ventiman wrote:

Easy solution all lab hater stop playing

2 outcomes
The fairytale of a vocal minority is right
Or it is not and as a chain reaction you will have a followed mass exodus

It will take about 2 weeks till the population will notice that most of them will never experience the updated endgame

I'll probably give AoW a whirl, but without entering the labyrinth or ascending any characters (the same thing I did in Prophecy). I'd be astonished if AoW addresses anything about the lab and ascendancy classes, and 3.0 is so far off that it's become irrelevant.

I have the feeling from the number of posts from new/returning players, and what seems like wider publicity for PoE, that AoW is going to start off with a lot of players, and the question will be how well it retains them. The lab is, most likely, a player sink for GGG, with (just my guess) very few players signing up because they want to experience its "pleasures" and "challenges", and many long-time and new players quitting because of it. But the rewards/bribes at the end of the lab may well be enough to stem the flow.

Yes, and I wouldn't be surprised if they increased the rewards yet again, particularly if they remove the Ascendancy points.

But that's backward thinking. The people who love the lab will get even greater rewards, and the people who hate the lab will mostly end up in one of two categories:

1) They continue not to do the lab, and get disadvantaged even further (trading) because of currency inflation.

2) They decide to do the lab after all, to keep up with everyone else, but hate it just as much.

The latter is actually the less desirable outcome, because it is long-term poison to GGG's revenue model.

I keep reading replies and replies and replies, and i cant but notice that there are 5-6 people that keep coming back to post their toxic insults and ignorant comments about something they dont understand simply because they havent even read the opening post (or maybe they play/are dumb and they genuinely cant understand it or read it thats also a possibility). Because of that they keep posting irrelevant things that their mind perceives as relevant and in the process not only they litter the place with nonsense but also BUMP the thread and create new topics for discussion from other users that find them fascinating (usually same narrow-minded individuals from the white knight circle) or simply too funny and make fun of them via analogies and simple answers.

The opening post is there for you to read. Read it and if you still believe what we are asking is even in the slightest wrong or far fetched feel free to say why and also suggest ways in which this issue can be resolved, because if you think we like exchanging words with the ignorant and malevolent side of the forums you are way too naive. We dont find joy in bashing the game, if that was the case we wouldnt try with reason to provide feedback, we wouldnt have so many arguments, we wouldnt have come with so many suggestions, so much analysis etc. If this was just a hate-only labyrinth thread it would have died in the first week. But it isnt. The reason its kept alive is becasue there are legitimate issues regarding the matter that are all in the opening post for everyone to read.

I keep on seeing labyrinth is fine, labyrinth is good for the game, labyrinth should stay etc. And i have, no no, i need to once and for all resolve this. Yes i too believe that the labyrinth is fine, and its also good for the game since it offers alteratives for players to have fun with and ofcourse should stay (not even a single suggestion in the opening post says otherwise) suggesting anything else would be a huge sign of disrespect and slap on the face of the designers and devs and their time and work they put in that thing and if you read the OP you could see that, but unfortunately you have your heads where the sun does not shine. You are in such a fanatic and zealous state that you deny to see how legitimate the issues presented and the analysis are.

But how its possible to say lab is good for the game while you bash it too? Some - rather lacking - people might ask. Well i just mentioned above how it provides new grounds and ways for people to have fun, it is a very rewarding area and a totally different kind of playstyle and change of pace that some definetaly find fascinating and enjoyable.

But in the same time this new kind of playstyle is not for another certain category of players, same with this change of pace. Some dont care about the physical rewards and other simply cant have fun with something like that.

Thats why this thread is still here, to suggest ways that part of this content can be enjoyed from others as well. (at this point if you dont know or have understood what the opening post says its rather uselless to keep on reading). Not only this but all the suggestions keep the labyrinth intact, not only we want it in the game but ALL the rewards it offers now are kept there and even in some cases we suggest buffs to make those who run it feel even more rewarded.

The basic notion of all the suggestion is simple : give us an alternative way to somehow get ascendancy points without having to get through this obviously different and alienating playstyle, (reading the opening post to see the solid facts and stats presented there that support this truth - i would have said claim but its already a known solid fact) that not only goes against PoE's history of expansions but takes a step further and disses a part of the community just because. Never before character progression and especially customization was gated behind something "optional". And nontheless gated by something that we didnt sign for and neither supported the game for. Labyrinth aint masters nor atziri, its something else and its hurting the game. Make it optional with creating new ways of ascending and all its good, simple as that.

But there is more to the whole story about the labyrinth, recently i made an analysis how the labyrinth numbers only showcase and verify our part of the story that the actual people that run the lab for the fun and the loot is less than 20% of the playerbase of our realm (not counting garenas platforms around the world). A good number and actually fitting for a side area with such great loot (especially endgame lab and merciless) BUT this number only shows how little others care about it as a whole.

What i mean is that besides Ascendancies the labyrinth offers so many rewards and its a very nice place to farm, so why also gate such a thing behind it just to make people run it? Isnt the purpose of the whole expansion thing optional? Even in the recent interviews for AoW Chris said how they want the thing to be optional so that players dont miss anything if they dont want to do it, the same applied to Atziri, and the Masters. So why again this should be any different? Why cant you see simple truths and patterns?

And this leads us to the one question i asked so many times and never got answered in a way that can rebutall the purpose of the thread (meaning every answer given was simply agreeing with us, or way too vague/stupid to even considered one). How any addition/change/rework in the ascencion method - while keeping it as an option also in the labyrinth - will have any negative effect in anyone's gameplay/personal experience? Clear of ambiguities and holes that the bully brigade seems to like so much to abuse.

Benjamin Franklin once said "All mankind is divided into three classes: those that are immovable, those that are movable, and those that move."

A very intruguing sentiment - if i might say - that applies very well to the whole labyrinth "war". Everyone can make their own assumptions to what that means, so better explain as Franklin did. Immovable are those people who are simply too stuborn, selfish, narrow-minded and ignorant to see anything in a different way or from a different perspective. The movable are those kind of people that while open-minded, usually lack the critical thinking and are quite gullible. Lastly those who move are those who ACT, open minded, usually selfless people that want the change and lead the way.

Immovable category contains all the white knight or fanboys, they simply cant see anything past their nose. It also contains the extremists from the lab haters side that claim the labyrinth should removed alltogether. These people are not even worthy to talk with, its like talking to a stone (thats why i stopped responding to some individuals to be honest).

The movable category is the biggest from the three, here are the people who run the lab just to get the ascendancies, while also critising it. It also contains people that like running the labyrinth for the fun and the rewards but in the process they also see some fundamental flaws and issues with it and are not afraid to point them. Those are the people that the following part (as well as most of the thread) focuses on, cause those people are open-minded, can see how things are and can understand the why behind them, and due to their numbers can literally FORCE a change.

Lastly the moving category is those who actively want a change. Those who make the suggestions and propose ways to improve the whole ordeal.

And now comes the hard part. You know people who you are and where you belong. Maybe you dont know the extent of your power but believe me you HAVE IT. You can STOP doing the labyrinth if you dont like it, and i mean dont do it even once for the Ascendancies, SHOW GGG how bad it is. STOP supporting the game until fundamental issues with it (lab and the game as a whole) are fixed, do you want a new expansion or A BETTER GAMING EXPERIENCE?


Of course this will fall on deaf ears, unfortunately people cant understand or simply want to forget how their choices really affect all. Lets all have fun for one month and then for two wait for the next expansion right GGG and players? Cow milking must be really profitable once per expansion.

Honestly i feel exhausted after so long time, i have the tenacity to continue but its really disheartening for me to see so many and especially GGG ignoring or disrespecting the issues presented here as well as around the forums. There are just some things someone can do with this format and i believe ive done them all, i used reason and emotion, polite and harsh wording, funny as well as serious analogies to no avail.

Some will surely listen, hell they might even agree, but what i hope is for one or two to take action, spark the flame of change, that's all it takes after all. Well maybe its too late for that.

Seven days till patchnotes.

Lab & ascendancy doesn't need any changes

Stop making a new thread everyday you're just spamming the forum

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diablofdb wrote:

Lab & ascendancy doesn't need any changes

Stop making a new thread everyday you're just spamming the forum

Stop bumping this, man!

Seriously.

You're like... Barbra Streisand. Trying to shut something up but instead calling more attention to it.

Or maybe... you're a lab hater in disguise! Yes, that must be it.