SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Actually, I wasn't commenting on the content of goetzjam's comments. He referred to specific things said by GGG, that I haven't heard. Can someone point me to the source? I bolded the relevant parts to make it clearer.

(If they are accurate, then it's great news from where I stand. I'd rather see the labyrinth fixed than abandoned.)

You should take what ever goetzjam says with a very huge amount of doubt as he lied few times now about what chris said, and is known for trolling around the forums (and getting probation for it). No it was not stated anywhere from chris that they will change the lab.
This is what he said:

"a lot of emails for a new method to get the points that bypasses the lab, maybe thats something we will do in the future, we are not closed to the idea, but its not something that is coming out in this expansion"

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miljan wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Actually, I wasn't commenting on the content of goetzjam's comments. He referred to specific things said by GGG, that I haven't heard. Can someone point me to the source? I bolded the relevant parts to make it clearer.

(If they are accurate, then it's great news from where I stand. I'd rather see the labyrinth fixed than abandoned.)

You should take what ever goetzjam says with a very huge amount of doubt as he lied few times now about what chris said, and is known for trolling around the forums (and getting probation for it). No it was not stated anywhere from chris that they will change the lab.
This is what he said:

"a lot of emails for a new method to get the points that bypasses the lab, maybe thats something we will do in the future, we are not closed to the idea, but its not something that is coming out in this expansion"

Oh.

Damn.

Yeah, I already knew about that; I listened to the podcast.

I think the labyrinth could be a lot of fun! With a little work. Right now it's utter garbage, of course. Just seems like a waste to me.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Oh.

Damn.

Yeah, I already knew about that; I listened to the podcast.

I think the labyrinth could be a lot of fun! With a little work. Right now it's utter garbage, of course. Just seems like a waste to me.

I'm sure that labyrinth could be fun for many that don't enjoy it now. Heck, I assume that it was much more hated before many of the performance problems were fixed? There's an unknown percentage of people that just don't like trap play. Trap play is also more difficult to reward in an ARPG since there's no loot drops from monsters. An issue you mentioned in your open letter, IIRC. I think the safest path for GGG would be to make labyrinth optional by making ascendancy points available else where and then try to further enhance labyrinth in the more distant future.

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miljan wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Actually, I wasn't commenting on the content of goetzjam's comments. He referred to specific things said by GGG, that I haven't heard. Can someone point me to the source? I bolded the relevant parts to make it clearer.

(If they are accurate, then it's great news from where I stand. I'd rather see the labyrinth fixed than abandoned.)

You should take what ever goetzjam says with a very huge amount of doubt as he lied few times now about what chris said, and is known for trolling around the forums (and getting probation for it). No it was not stated anywhere from chris that they will change the lab.
This is what he said:

"a lot of emails for a new method to get the points that bypasses the lab, maybe thats something we will do in the future, we are not closed to the idea, but its not something that is coming out in this expansion"

Devs are reading this thread. If its still here we have to give him the benefit of the doubt. they would have removed the post by now. Also it never said they would do anything just IF they did what they would do.

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SaiyanZ wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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SaiyanZ wrote:

Just did Normal lab with an old character in Standard. I only got 4 points! Don't tell me I have to go through the shitty lab again? I got six points with another character a few weeks ago from just Normal lab.

Did your other character already have merciless and cruel done from before the change?

Thats the only explanation I can think of, you need to run the lab on merciless if you want to run it only once to get all 6 points. (these also must be characters made before that specific date)

Yeah all done except for Merciless Crystal Veins onward.

You need to complete merc malachai to get all 6 points. had the same problem

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Zalhan2 wrote:

I don't even see the point of discussing if he did what, he hated doing it. I can talk about lots of things I hate to do but can find a way to do. I do that at work but I am getting paid. I would rather do things I like to do when playing a game. I don't even mind doing shitty things in a game once and I while. I killed so many rats in mmo's.

The thing that's worrying is this is 2 unfun seasons in a row, the the offset of playing any build and collecting any unique I wanted offset that issue. They needed to rein in loot and I love that decision. But the next season will be better (less) loot distribution and they are making the unfun part of the game take longer. Even if you disagree you have to see our fears.

These fears are not even being publically abated by developer post's but inflamed. I am sure there will be L2P and STFU and DEV's R gods STFU posts. Still can you see our fears even if you disagree?

Don't the super sweet A-Points offset any problem with the lab?

I mean, my first lab playthrough I didn't even stop to notice if it was 'fun' as I was eager to get the points and test them out.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

and yet you still cannot grasp the simple thing: noone cares.

and you helped it a lot by calling things frogger, indiana jones or whatnot. repating the same nonsense over and over again and forced others to see your 'displeasement' as a 'problem'.

Here's a good rule of thumb before hitting the submit button. Ask yourself, "Does this post actually contribute to the thread?" If the answer is no, then you should be PMing the individual you are annoyed with instead of making everyone else read your post. I'm sorry for singling you out (and you certainly aren't the only offender in this thread), but it's to the point where I won't even bother reading something someone has written if too many of their other posts are spammy and salty like this one. It doesn't mean you don't have valuable things to say, but... Boy who cried wolf and all that.

@Regulator
I think they have gotten the message. Chris said that it's more likely they will remove the Ascendancy points from the labyrinth than that they will fix it (with an implication that one or the other will almost certainly happen), but he also qualified that statement with the fact that it won't happen very soon. I'd guess August or September. I personally am disappointed with that solution, as I would rather see the Labyrinth fixed and made more fun.

In any case, it would appear your efforts have not been in vain.

True, but I don't think you should mistake brevity and a lack of tact with a lack of contributions. It's relatively subjective in the first place, but one might look at that post as being succinct and a distillation to the core issues.

I was about to write something similar but much more verbose.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

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Dos_Fafner wrote:

This is the problem with the entire "anti-lab" side of this thread. Actual facts are ignored while opinions are repeatedly (as well as loudly and rudely) touted as being fact.

You (and you all know who you are) do not like the lab. Everyone gets it. Now get over it and let's fight about something else; obviously on this particular merry-go-round issue GGG sided with those of us that think the lab is an interesting and essential part of the POE experience. Better luck next time.

So how do you "prove" a game sucks or is great. According to you unless I can "prove" the lab sucks I should not voice what content I like or dislike. Unless I get stats by doing a nationwide poll, I can't voice my opinion my guild and people I talk to in twitch for the most part hate it also?

your basically just tell people to shut up in a feedback forum. Why is there a feedback forum? If it a stats only forum it shouldn't be named something that asks for opinion.

Because its a place people put there feedback.

No, rather opinions should not be misconstrued as facts and subjective opinions should not be misconstrued as even necessarily having an objective factual part to glean.

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Not sure what you are looking for in a feedback forum if not opinions. Feedback is always an opinion. Some of those opinions can be backed up by facts, some can't.

I think the Labyrinth would be awesome if they added Justin Bieber music to it. Oh, you disagree? OK, disagree, but make sure you back it up with facts.

Protip: "Justin Bieber sucks" is not a fact.*

And for the record, Chris and the dev team are considering removing the Ascendancy points from the lab. You think they would be doing so if all this negative feedback never happened?

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goetzjam wrote:

I told you long ago they won't likely consider any system that moves AC from the lab, yet you seem to think just because you have a massive list of ideas that they all are equally as good, that simply isn't the case.

And I told you three hours before you posted this that your prediction turned out to be wrong. I guess you didn't notice. ;)




*OK, maybe it is.

I know it's unintentional regardless, but it's almost insulting that you'd suggest Dos_F et al would make an asinine argument like that.

I mean, the "fact" that they obviously wouldn't is one of the main themes of this thread.

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innervation wrote:

As long as they continue to make changes to the labyrinth (they just announced a new one yesterday) it seems perfectly reasonable to continue discussing what we do and don't like. Discussion like this does go in circles at times, because of people who jump in later in the thread, or people who weren't active on the forums back when a lot of this stuff was said back on March 3-7 (ascendancy release).

This might be a tangent but I read his post as saying the same thing you are. Less "stfu" and more "let's move this forward, maybe find something more refined than 'dislike/not fun'"

I really hope GGG at least understands why the lab was controversial and learns from its mistakes for future game design. Hopefully they don't just chalk up the negativity to some kind of community manifested anomaly.

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miljan wrote:

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gibbousmoon wrote:

Actually, I wasn't commenting on the content of goetzjam's comments. He referred to specific things said by GGG, that I haven't heard. Can someone point me to the source? I bolded the relevant parts to make it clearer.

(If they are accurate, then it's great news from where I stand. I'd rather see the labyrinth fixed than abandoned.)

You should take what ever goetzjam says with a very huge amount of doubt as he lied few times now about what chris said, and is known for trolling around the forums (and getting probation for it). No it was not stated anywhere from chris that they will change the lab.
This is what he said:

"a lot of emails for a new method to get the points that bypasses the lab, maybe thats something we will do in the future, we are not closed to the idea, but its not something that is coming out in this expansion"

Yeah clip out the rest of what he said after that because it would make my point true.

He then goes on to explain how he likes that there is decisive content in the game and the idea that you might have to do something that you dont necessarily enjoy to get the benefit for doing it.

[Removed by Support]


So no lies, if anyone is lying its you by not finishing the fucking quote. As for trolling, that isn't the case if you don't know why I was put on probation don't fucking speculate. Very very few of my post every get editted by GGG, the last couple of times I was put on probation were from PMs, not post. If anyone is trolling its your pathetic attempt to try and circle jerk a point without accepting the reality of the situation which is, THEY HAVE NO PLANS TO REMOVE AC FROM THE LAB.


Posting blatantly incorrect information should be removed as you aren't doing anyone a favor by leaving out the rest of what he said.

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Yeah, I already knew about that; I listened to the podcast.

If you knew that you would know he had much more to say about the lab then that pathetic little snippet that can be read as more then what the whole picture was.


Also the post that says we should just assume most people hate the lab, despite "most people" not being an accurate representation about the playerbase, if it was as large of an issue as you all said it was then Chris's mailbox would be full of so many emails that he wouldnt be able to get any other work done then replying to emails. There has been like 20-30 likely total post on this topic, which is far less then any of the major issues that this game has had. I would say there have been far more post regarding level 8 masters not taking hideout slots, then there have been anything to do with the lab.


But instead of focusing on anything constructive. People want to bash what I said as if it was wrong. It isn't wrong as both what Chris stated in an email to the other user as well as what he said on the podcast indicates that you all should focus on how to make the lab something you are willing to do to get the AC points. [Removed by Support]something constructive instead of just discussing pointless things that have no effect then by all means continue to circle jerk and leave out pieces of information to make your point "better" but when you are willing to accept reality let me know and I will help discuss what "a person that likes the lab" would think of your suggestion.

Until then piece.