Does anyone actually enjoy Labyrinth?

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Stealthbug wrote:

People having issues with the traps:
Is no one carrying whirling blades...? Leap slam or lightning warp? ...anything?

.....quicksilver flask?

No movement skills, nor problems either.
I was carrying a couple quicksilver flasks, but found I didn't really need them.

half the traps can just be walked around without any effort at all.

one fourth of them are just a series of walk, sidestep (or get off the hot floor) wait a moment and walk a bit further and repeat a few times.

The remainder of combo traps (four lines of moving saw blades and two roombas for example) just have to be watched for a few seconds (maybe 5-15 depending on complexity) and you can then see how to move to get by them.

The only near deaths (and one actual death last night) I've had were when I basically decided to forge on ahead and not watch the pattern for a moment first.

While a horde of monsters and lots of moving traps can cause some frame rate loss/stutter, by and large, I think the biggest complain people have can be summarized with one word.

ROADKILL.

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justinmm1988 wrote:

You try it on a pure es build yet?! Do and get back to me, after running it 50 times on my life srs, I switched to my low life summoner, and I feel real back for ES chars, you get hit more than once your dead, no way around it, no health flask to save you, vaal disipline will save you once, but can spam that every time you get trapped on spikes.

Also get back to me when you have done 50+ runs for a helm enchant? Then tell me how much you like the lab! You wont, you will be annoyed and frustrated, and 150+ runs you will be whining like everyone else...

I don't know, man. If I'm on a character that's particularly weak at the lab, I'm not going to use that character to do lab runs for enchantments. I'll get through (if I can, that is) for the Ascendancy points and feel good about taking on the challenge and eventually succeeding.

Then I'll go to a different character for enchantments, if I feel like doing so. Enchantments are cool, but not the same as Ascendancy points in that players feel like they will eventually *need* them in order to stay competitive with new content.

Also, I like the traps, and if I chose to do 150+ runs with a particular character, I'd probably do so by choice, knowing very well what I was getting into each time.


-VG-

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AkuTenshiiZero wrote:

Labyrinth and Izaro are so utterly disconnected from each other, they might as well just go the whole way and remove him and make him a different challenge. As it is, there is no reason to explore the Labyrinth unless you need to complete the relic challenge.

I like the labyrinth. But the labyrinth is not the reason we're there, Izaro is. Therefore, the labyrinth becomes a waste of time and an utterly pointless hindrance. There's a concept in game design called "iteration cycles." It basically means the time it takes to go from a failure state to another attempt, and as a rule harder games require shorter iteration cycles to make the difficulty bearable. So, for example, if you die to Dominus you get kicked right back outside the door and walk back in, the iteration cycle is mere seconds. I started to realize GGG was out of touch with this concept when I played the Kaom areas. If you get 90% of the way through and die, you have to spend what feels like an eternity walking all the way back. Daresso's zone is slightly less heinous, though only in the second half where it's broken up into checkpoints.

The point here is that the iteration cycles on Izaro are ridiculous for how hard he is, and everything making those cycles longer (AKA the labyrinth) is sheer torment. Even somone who would enjoy the labyrinth, like me, will quickly learn to hate it because it's just one more stupid thing between you and another attempt at this stupid boss.

This is so well-worded that I simply had to quote it and point that out.

Thank you for phrasing it all so well. :)

I really like the lab, and I hope that it remains (becomes?) successful. As it is, there's so much good but so much in the way. If we could somehow just see what Izaro was doing, and think about what we could do to counter it, I think we'd be pretty good.


-VG-

loving the lab so far , havent had any issues with lags whatsoever.

My opinion is that the "joy" of the labyrinth comes with gear and the right build.

If you have:
-high life regneration
-very high movement speed
-leveled / enhanced movement skills
-high dps or build with fast scaling development
-a decent life pool

...then the labyrinth can be fun. Problem is that most characters don't have any of those while leveling. In fact, if the character lacks in so many areas, the laby becomes a tormenting chore. The desing is not really well though out and does not fit PoE at all.


My experience so far:
I overleveled my first normal labyrinth run by over 20 levels. Then I had a boring time and still felt frustrated by the awful design. My build needed at least 4 ascendancy points to actually work. In additon it was one of those late scaling builds, where I needed certain items at level 65+ range.

I don't know what GGG is thinking. To forcing players to solve the labyrinth with suboptimal setup is the most stupid idea they ever had. As a player with average 7 chars per league, I feel very upset. If this is the new permanent direction of PoE, I might seriously quit the game.

GGG most probably to move the 'benchmark' of what build has to be capable of to be called a build and what kind of game knowledge player has to have before he is allowed into late game

previously all it needed was a fast clear speed. no skill involved, corners cut, bandaids everywhere

now a build has to pass certain checks to be even possible (or else you have 0 asc points)

power creep and no-skill-players-meta dominated POE development for far too long and now it is starting to be at least a bit more 'hardcore' than lately.

lab is a skill check (yes, quicksilvering, navigating maps efficiently and avoiding traps is also a skill - both pretty useful when mapping) and there are some players that are so used to facerolling everything because 'theyve got gear'

i also have a bad news for all you zerging players - i have a gut feeling that the no-logout lab is just the beginning. they already did 5 sec TP's for certain races knowing full well that if not for that gameplay would be simply tp-out-tp-in fest

A handfull of individuals surely do, another handfull hate it with passion, and then there are the rest who grind their teeth and swallow their pride and run the damn thing just to get what is fun out of it, the AC points, never even looking back or thinking of replaying the arcade mini-game GGG called labyrinth.

I dont mind it, but the game is taking to long to level (and it already was with act4) i hope ggg get rid of cruel next major patch (dreams are...).

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Mannoth wrote:

Would really like to see people who complain about the labyrinth play Dark Souls :)

DS is a game made to have trap mechanisms. PoE isn't.

Rinth is nothing more than another brainless "spam ledge/docks/lake all day" feature that I don't very much enjoy.

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sidtherat wrote:

GGG most probably to move the 'benchmark' of what build has to be capable of to be called a build and what kind of game knowledge player has to have before he is allowed into late game

Sure ... only the chosen builds can be used forth on. Do you know how stupid this is when GGG advertised Path of Exile as most build versatile? From now on only the FOTM builds are allowed to get the ASPs, while everyone else has to absurdely overlevel each character or buy items to even have a chance ... seriously!

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sidtherat wrote:

previously all it needed was a fast clear speed. no skill involved, corners cut, bandaids everywhere

What do you expect of a freaking H&S? It's not as skillbased as MOBA, MMO or RTS. That's why we play it, because its fun as it is.

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sidtherat wrote:

now a build has to pass certain checks to be even possible (or else you have 0 asc points)

Again, you are absolutely wrong. Why would we spec into another build or make a detour? Especially since all we needed to complete our planned one are the missing ASPs? Don't you see the idiocy in this?

I do not want to spent dozens of "regrets" to get my original build in order, just because GGG and guys like you won't support appropriate design/levels for the game.

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sidtherat wrote:

power creep and no-skill-players-meta dominated POE development for far too long and now it is starting to be at least a bit more 'hardcore' than lately.

What is hardcore about "boring" and "annoying"? PoE is no plattformer, jump & run or whatever. Never mix what does not match!

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sidtherat wrote:

lab is a skill check (yes, quicksilvering, navigating maps efficiently and avoiding traps is also a skill - both pretty useful when mapping) and there are some players that are so used to facerolling everything because 'theyve got gear'

Yeah, said the guy who only does his speedruns with good equip?! Have you ever thought about problems connections and FPS? Oh, I am sorry. For an Alt+F4 abuser, this phenomenom does not exist!

So much for the "skill". We have the skills, but the game is not fun in the laby. Give us our ASPs, so we can do what is fun about PoE - making awesome builds(!).

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sidtherat wrote:

i also have a bad news for all you zerging players - i have a gut feeling that the no-logout lab is just the beginning. they already did 5 sec TP's for certain races knowing full well that if not for that gameplay would be simply tp-out-tp-in fest

A beginning can also be an end. If GGG does not care about what the majority of their playerbase wants, the results may be painful for them. The "in-your-face" method is not liked by most customers.