Labyrinth - CI, Low-Life, and Energy Shield in general.

I see a lot of threads with negative feedback about the labyrinth. I guess another one will do no harm.


I want this thread to concern Energy Shield as a mechanic in the Labyrinth.

As you probably already know, the damage of traps is based on your maximum life+maximum ES. Meaning that, regardless of how much life you have, the traps are going to hit you for the same %amount of life.

This means that the big advantage of CI over life, which is that it can reach really high numbers, is completely nullified, while CI's disadvantages remain:
CI has:
- limited access to regeneration (you need life regen AND Zealot's Oath)
- no way of instantly recovering, apart from Vaal Discipline which need charges to be used

This means that long sequences of traps are exceptionally difficult to handle. While life-based characters can be healed instantly, leaving the player quite a lot of room for error - bumping into 5 traps in a row is not a problem when all you need to do is press "1" several times for your seething flask. However, with ES-based builds, you can make 1 mistake. 1. The second mistake right after that means you're dead. And I'm telling that right after dying in normal Labyrinth on my 8,1k ES Witch (so yes, this can be considered a rage post, but that doesn't mean there's no issue).

What I described above can lead to some ridiculous situations where ES users take out all their ES gear, effectively going pure life and use life potions instead, making the Labyrinth run much easier for them. And I think I'm going to do just that.

I imagine the situation to be much worse for low-life users. If the trap damage is indeed calculated on your total health-pool, then such characters take more damage than others - as a proportion to their effective health-pool.



The last thing I'd like to add is: Doing Labyrinth in Standard is a torment. Even more so, when you have to do the trials as well. I realise, however, that the game is not balanced around Standard, so I'm not really expecting anythin to be done, just wanted to voice my dissatisfaction with the current situation. I really like all the character development paths that were introduced with 2.2 and the new playstyles and builds that emerged as a result. I'm just becoming less and less sure that running the maddening Labyrinth is really worth it.

ive done merc lab with my hybrid life/es character a 'few' times already. he had 5k ES. it was and still is the easiest imaginable labyrinth run

ES regens itself after a duration. no pots needed. it is really really good. no problem there

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sidtherat wrote:

ive done merc lab with my hybrid life/es character a 'few' times already. he had 5k ES. it was and still is the easiest imaginable labyrinth run

ES regens itself after a duration. no pots needed. it is really really good. no problem there

That's why I indicated that sequences of traps are most difficult. I've encountered situations where there were traps for solid 7-8 seconds of running. In that case if you get hit once, you are very likely not going to have any room to hide in order to let your ES recharge. In that case, when you make the second mistake, you die. While life-based builds would have no such problem as long as their flasks were usable.

Well to be fair, I already did a few labyrinth runs (by force, since you have to start again if it crashs :P).

And I dont feel the traps are doing that much damage and Lightning Warp even allows you to often simply jump over hard trap-combinations entirely. Of course instant flasks make it completly trivial to pass the traps but even without the traps are really not that hard.

The only issue I see is that you cannot try again. In some situations you dont know the actual trap sequence and have to run into it, without knowing how far the traps go. I had those burning ground traps and didnt know where I have to go. So I basically first had to look at the timing, then just run in to see the whole trap and then do my first actual attempt. This isnt a really big issue, but considering the fast paced gameplay you usually have, traps need time and patience to bypass, you cannot just run in and expect to do well.

One of the trap-setups with those chopping blades and I think saws and poison darts I literally spent more time than it takes to clear one map. Just because I couldnt jump over them with Lightning Warp (because it was only lvl1 and it is really hard to jump into a spot with an active trap and get the timing right). The area had almost no safe spots, so you had to permanently dodge traps and plan your way at the same time.

So getting an overlook over the whole trap-sequence before you attempt it would make it a bit less frustrating, since you would know were safespots are etc.

So things are easier for one character and harder for another. I thought that was the point?

Some characters can do Atziri, others can't. Some have better time against single target, others don't. Some fear high damage output, others are annoyed by high monster life. Some are better at the labyrinth, others are not so well suited for it. I see no problem with any of that?

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Char1983 wrote:

So things are easier for one character and harder for another. I thought that was the point?

Some characters can do Atziri, others can't. Some have better time against single target, others don't. Some fear high damage output, others are annoyed by high monster life. Some are better at the labyrinth, others are not so well suited for it. I see no problem with any of that?

In none of the above cases unequipping your gear makes your character better suited. In the case of the Labyrinth, it actually might.

Wow, look at all the white knights on this thread!

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Anseth wrote:

I see a lot of threads with negative feedback about the labyrinth. I guess another one will do no harm.


I want this thread to concern Energy Shield as a mechanic in the Labyrinth.

[...]

And I'm telling that right after dying in normal Labyrinth on my 8,1k ES Witch (so yes, this can be considered a rage post, but that doesn't mean there's no issue).

Maybe this is the reason I've died 7 times now trying to get through normal lab. I'm just not good enough to play through with CI. Hmm... guess I could spec out of CI and play through as hybrid. Super lame, yes. Probably "not as intended", but IDGAF. GGG has thoroughly disgusted me with this area and I'm not caring what they think i ought to be able to do.

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Some characters can do Atziri, others can't. Some have better time against single target, others don't. Some fear high damage output, others are annoyed by high monster life. Some are better at the labyrinth, others are not so well suited for it. I see no problem with any of that?

You miss one thing that Lab is designed (I assume) for every character to pass at least once.
And for someone it's currently impossible to even get an Ascendancy class

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Treexter wrote:

"

Some characters can do Atziri, others can't. Some have better time against single target, others don't. Some fear high damage output, others are annoyed by high monster life. Some are better at the labyrinth, others are not so well suited for it. I see no problem with any of that?

You miss one thing that Lab is designed (I assume) for every character to pass at least once.
And for someone it's currently impossible to even get an Ascendancy class

impossible is a big word. have something to back it up?

Just wanted to add that this character just ripped in hardcore due to this. I had roughly 1100 effective health (500ish life and 600ish ES) and got hit by a spike trap. It takes away my entire ES pool and puts the bleed on me. Getting hit by a second trap before both the bleed ends AND ES refills is a rip.

You can't flask your ES and without it the trap will 'one' shot you through your life pool since your life pool isn't as high and it's calculated with your total life and ES.

I feel like witches in general are at a GROSS disadvantage in Lab because of this. I really wanted to try out Elementalist and Occultist but now it seems completely pointless due to being so gimped.