Labyrinth sucks

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nephilim1984 wrote:

I like the lab, and the traps. But I think it should be shorter.

There seems to be a fair number of other players with this exact same opinion. They have sometimes said that the labyrinth gameplay is more tiring to them than the regular PoE gameplay.

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Chadwixx wrote:

Dying to something you cant attack is really bad design. I can one shot bosses but i cant damage a wooden pole with spikes? Its just silly

It's not bad design, it's design you don't like.

I like the idea of the labyrinth, but as I've stated in other threads, traps are absolute garbage.

I'm trying to do the cruel labyrinth with my hybrid summoner. I have ridiculous defense for an area with that level, at over 3000 life and 3000 energy shield. Traps shit all over me, though.

"Git gud," the moronic apologists immediately vomit forth.

I've tried to skillfully play around traps. Some it's entirely possible and I have no issue with certain traps and even gauntlets of traps. Others it's not fucking remotely possible to maneuver these gauntlets without getting hit.

The worst offender by far is the shitty buzzsaw/spike trap gauntlet. This is absolute horseshit and has annoyed the hell out of me on life based characters. On this hybrid character, it makes me want to stop playing the fucking game.

One issue that's not just with traps but with many recent additions to POE is that my usual 55 fps drops to between 2 and 20 around buzzsaws. That's pretty damn annoying, and makes most skill irrelevant. When I'm moving by teleporting instead of running, it's impossible to maneuver a trap gauntlet. I often end up having to log out with buzzsaws ripping through my genitals. Did I mention I'm a summoner? With spectres? Yeah, fuck logging out as a summoner. Resummoning everything and putting auras back up is absolute shit, and GGG still hasn't fixed those things to persist through logging out.

First problem: you have the tiniest window to start running through the trap gauntlet. Any tiny mistake has spikes up your ass or has you running with a buzzsaw. The first is really bad, but I can possibly push through depending on where the trap is (but this one's at the fucking beginning of the fucking gauntlet, so I log out). The latter is log out or die.

Second problem: the fucking light radius is bullshit. These gauntlets seem designed so that we can look at them, recognize patterns, and skillfully maneuver through them (ignoring that POE's movement scheme is utter shit for this). How can you do this when you can't even see the fucking traps you'll have to maneuver through? How could skill possibly matter when there's no time see what you have to do?

Third problem: why the fuck is ES treated as part of life when it's very obviously not part of life? The first hit from a spike trap knocks off my ES. The second hit knocks off nearly all of my life. On a life based character, I'd flask back to full after the first hit. On a hybrid, I just take it up the ass. This isn't even one of the worst trap situations for ES builds, and I can at least flask when I'm down to life (and taking double fucking damage at that point since my ES is still factored in).

There's plenty more wrong with traps, like a logout making you start from fucking scratch or the idiotic scaling that ignores levels and defense, but that's more than enough for me to easily say fuck this shit. It's terrible. It's not fun. It's poorly thought out and even more poorly executed.

Could something be done with traps that wouldn't be absolute dogshit? I'm sure it could. Would it resemble POE's current implementation? Not a fucking chance.

Throw this shit in the garbage where it belongs.

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NeroNoah wrote:

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Chadwixx wrote:

Dying to something you cant attack is really bad design. I can one shot bosses but i cant damage a wooden pole with spikes? Its just silly

It's not bad design, it's design you don't like.

Chadwixx has a valid point.

We can fry the most powerful creature in the game with fireballs. But, we can't burn a piece of wood with spikes sticking out of it, nor can we melt or even disable a metallic roomba running around a room. We can drive arrows through massive creatures, but we can't stick a spike into a wall to prevent darts from coming out. Etc.

If we were able to disable and destroy moving parts of the environment (ie: traps), though, then I'd welcome keeping traps in the game. I'd go out of my may to nuke every trap I came across in Lab back to platform games from the 1980s, which is where they belong.

That would probably get old in a few runs. After that,I'd focus more on just disabling enough of traps to actually play through Lab as if it's an ARPG, instead of what Lab is now. Those first few runs through destructible traps would be fun, though.

On a related point, after all the frustration and disappointment directed at the old Solaris, I'm surprised that GGG thought a multi-zone variant on the old Solaris with no checkpoints or waypoints would be a well loved part of the game.

Then I remember that you have to play the game three times before maps. And that you can fight a twinned Malachai with extra projectiles.

The world is an illusion, exile.

PS: You don't get to decide what is allowed in ARPGs. Classic counterexample: Nox. Feel free to discuss how the whole thing sucks, though.

PS2: if you want an explanation, here it is: magic.

@Jennik

Here's the last phase fight for cruel Izaro with my summoner (lv60, 2k hp) in PHC, if you got difficulty with it i suggest using skele + zombie + double dip on poison, it is alot of dps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f34fyie_PSE&feature=youtu.be


It was a close fight; was considering about porting out, but the poison killed him :D.

Don't have any advice for the fps issues tho, some ppl have that and lab is a nightmare cuz of it, PoE does indeed need to switch to better engine. I'm on the luckier side in regards to fps spikes in lab, if it did spike tho, there would've been numerous places/times where I could've got rekt from that fight alone.

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SIQI wrote:

@Jennik

Here's the last phase fight for cruel Izaro with my summoner (lv60, 2k hp) in PHC, if you got difficulty with it i suggest using skele + zombie + double dip on poison, it is alot of dps.

I have no real issues with Izaro aside from a few of the random mechanics (shitty statues on timers that are nearly impossible to keep off if you don't have insane DPS, for example). I think his damage and life are a fair bit high for his level, but that's not super relevant when I'm level 73. This build absolutely ruins Izaro if I can make it to him. Even if I let him get fully buffed (which I would, because hey, free whetstones from a loot chest), he's not even going to get past my 3K ES, let alone through 3K life.

My complaints entirely centered around the labyrinth's shitty trap mechanics with no counterplay, which are exacerbated by POE's shitty performance which has recently gotten even shittier.

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Vortextreme wrote:

Throwing traps in after the game has already been released is sure to alienate some users.

Everything you do to PoE will alienate some users. Add traps? Alienates users. Increase drop rates? Alienates users. Decrease drop rates? Alienates users. Do nothing at all? Alienates users. You will not be able to please everyone. But right now, 2 months after the release of 2.2, PoE has more players (Steam charts) than it had 2 months after 2.0 - and 2.0 was a bigger release. So it can't be that bad, I guess.

As for things that you can die to that you cannot destroy - that has been in the game for ages. Burning ground, desecrated ground, anyone?

Yes, but having different gameplay in the new section of an already released game is bound to generate more community upset, especially when the new content gates very important buffs in mainline character development.

edit: Burning ground and desecrated ground did not change the fundamental gameplay of PoE, at least not in my view.

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Char1983 wrote:

Everything you do to PoE will alienate some users.

This kind of extrapolation seems to be a pretty common response to those of us who are alienated by the labyrinth. You don't like the labyrinth? Well, there are people who didn't like having to do Dominus, abomination Piety, or Malachai, so you're no different. Or, you don't like the labyrinth? --- well, that means you're just too closed-minded to accept any attempt to expand genres in a computer game, and so on. Why not stick to the many (and IMHO entirely legitimate) complaints about the labyrinth in PoE?

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As for things that you can die to that you cannot destroy - that has been in the game for ages. Burning ground, desecrated ground, anyone?

That's a good point --- I do recall the endless, whining threads created here and elsewhere on how much players hated getting killed by burning and desecrated grounds in PoE. ;)