[2.2 Theorycraft] Chaosblaster Assassin

I have already theorycrafted an Assassin flameblaster to start the league off, so let me compare, but also offer some insights on your build.

Unfortunately, I don't think your build - in its current iteration - can really work. Here is why:

- I don't think you can use Infernal Mantle. For two reasons. Firstly, you ideally want to run double Blasphemy - Ass Mark+War Mark, which would put you under 35% remaining. Ass Mark is paramount to charge generation (PCoC wouldn't even really work because of only one PC gained per flameblast), not to mention damage. War Mark is more disposable, but it opens you to mana problems, not to mention the reduced survivability. And secondly, even with only 25% of your damage being fire, at 75% fire res and 5k hp, you would still kill yourself on reflect not only on full stacks, but even only with over 5 stacks.

- As a result you would Dual Wield Consuming Darks instead. That means you won't be using Bino's. To be fair, Bino's regen wouldn't come to play that often anyway (as you need to stand right next to the killed mob), but the loss of prolif kind of does hurt the build, since you have very little cast speed atm. Long flameblast charge times would hurt both your survivability and clearspeed.

Now, the mana problems can usually be solved somehow. Clarity, Elreon rings, Rallying Cry, Vaal Clarity, flasks or their combinations would probably take care of it. But frankly I don't see how to ever get past the reflect problem. And if you plan to go lvl90+ with this build, you can't afford to have reflect mobs leap, flicker, etc into your blasts, and you also can't afford to ever not pay full attention. If, however, you don't plan to go lvl90+, enter my build:

Tree

Classic Fire based Flameblast. Assassin class, taking the same Ascendancy nodes. Not using Marylene's Fallacy. Carcass Jack for chest, facebreakers, otherwise rares.

Gem setup: FB+Conc+FC+Fire Pen+CD+AoE

Defense comparison:

Your build: 165% life, some EV, Acro+Spell Acro
My build: 195% life (with jewels), using skillz to dodge :>

Dmg comparison:

With your original links, Carcass and Dual Wielding Consuming Darks (Ass mark taken into account):

1.131m hit
826k dps
1.404m dot
1076 crit multi
90 crit
0.73 casts per second/1.36s to reach full stacks

My build:

774k hit
1m dps
2.218m dot
895 crit multi
96 crit
1.3 casts per second/0.77s to reach full stacks

(Unlike the ignite, you can stack the poison dot - nevertheless the dot is calculated from the hit dmg, not dps, as it is quite unlikely more than one hit would be needed)

In other words, a lot more dmg (even with an AoE gem in my setup), as well as much better clear speed and quicker, safer game play. Until you die to reflect SUPER hard, of course. Additionally, flat added light and flat added cold on weapons would be used to ensure shock (possibly useful against some bosses) and shatter (useful against Porcupines, etc).

That said, I do think that chaos is the best way to make a serious, T12+ mapping build and level past 90. How would I go about it:

- I would dual wield Consuming Darks and use Carcass but maybe Infernal Mantle can still be used somehow.
- The tree would also have to be remade to include more cast speed. I think that Frenzy charges are worth getting, but wouldn't kill myself getting them if the tree otherwise didn't fit.
- Jewel slots should be utilized
- Marylene's Fallacy is not worth getting. My build reaches higher crit than yours with only 100% inc crit on tree and no extra crit from gear apart from weapons. Yours (in the calculation I made) gets an additional 100% crit from gear (in addition to two Consuming Darks' implicits) and has 355% crit from tree (not counting Ascendancy nodes). That's, in effect, 355% crit in tree nodes not having Marylene's saves you. In addition, you wouldn't need crit chance on your rare amulet, leaving spots open for Crit Multi, Spell Dmg and Cast speed as well as an extra resist. And life, of course.
- I don't think your gem setup is good. These are some numbers I came up with using alternatives (replacing ICD):

With lvl3 Emp:
1.143m hit
837k dps
1.423m dot
907 crit multi
90 crit
0.73 casts per second/1.36s to reach full stacks

With Controlled Destruction:
1.273m hit
929k dps
1.580m dot
907 crit multi
82.5 crit
0.73 casts per second/1.36s to reach full stacks

With Faster Casting:
995k hit
931k dps
1.185m dot
907 crit mult
90 crit
0.98 casts per second/1.02s to reach full stacks

For my link I would therefore use: FB+Conc+Void+Ele Focus+FC+CD/AoE (depending on what feels better).

I think that's it for me for now. Hope it helps you a bit.

"

- I don't think you can use Infernal Mantle. For two reasons. Firstly, you ideally want to run double Blasphemy - Ass Mark+War Mark, which would put you under 35% remaining. Ass Mark is paramount to charge generation (PCoC wouldn't even really work because of only one PC gained per flameblast), not to mention damage. War Mark is more disposable, but it opens you to mana problems, not to mention the reduced survivability. And secondly, even with only 25% of your damage being fire, at 75% fire res and 5k hp, you would still kill yourself on reflect not only on full stacks, but even only with over 5 stacks.

Flameblast isn't viable to generate power charges, so we toss it out. Immediately go for a Ice Spear GMP PCoC setup. VERY easy to sustain power charges, costs a 3L though.

The necessity of prolif is rather suspect to me, except in high density maps. In most cases, an iAoE flameblast should encompas the pack completely, and maybe with a single small flameblast to clean up anything left, a rough 2.3s to clear 1 pack. Plenty fast.

"

Now, the mana problems can usually be solved somehow. Clarity, Elreon rings, Rallying Cry, Vaal Clarity, flasks or their combinations would probably take care of it.

Hardly need to try that hard. Either Rallying Cry if you have the sockets (cast it between each pack or every other, depending on how fast you're moving) and you should be just fine with increased duration, or a mana flask. Atziri's Promise + Quicksilver + 2 Life + Granite/Jade/Rumi's on preference/availability or swap for a mana flask if necessary. You're guaranteed to need a mana flask in no-regen and partial regen maps anyway.

Warlords Mark is not a viable mana sustain method as you will fill up once per pack because that's about all your hitting. You should only look at it for the leech and endurance charge aspect.



About your idea Cabesi:
Personally, Inquisitor would be a better option, with investment on tree for conversion. You're hitting big and elemental, so why not hit even bigger to maximize that DPS? You'll should still cap crit if you go for a tree somewhat similar to Legasi's, and that extra 30%+ life won't save you from reflect anyway, so why bother? You can then swap Fire Pen (as it would likely be lackluster due to diminishing returns after roughly -70% fire res on most mobs) for Elemental Focus. I can't think of a single mob in the game that would then be tanky enough to NOT be 1shot in that case, making burn scaling irrelevant. Rough guestimation of 2-3mill hit at 10 stacks, haven't done the math though.

You'd still have no Marylene's Fallacy, but you get a bunch of cast and attack speed coming into packs assuming you're using Whirling Blades, along with guaranteed 20% increased spell damage, as each stack will refresh the buff from Instruments of Virtue. Righteous Providence helps make up for the loss of Assassin crit and Inevitable Judgement is just... 400% more damage or so. Yay.



If I prove to be 100% full of bullshit, pardon my insanity. Legasi's used to it. Deal with it, I'm here to stay.

Yo Cabesi, thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts! Okay, let's try to break it down.

I personally don't see a problem with wearing IM. BlaspWM and AA is just right for mana. In a dual curse scenario cwdt WM works absolutely fine (check out my Masterpiece build if you are sceptical). You're also talking about dual curse without speccing for it in the tree, quite brave if you want to do that in a new league. But let's leave your skilltree for later.

As for the reflect, that is indeed a problem. Simplest (not easiest) would be dual wielding CD in the offhand and weapon swap for ref mobs/maps. I can't really tell how much reflect is actually going to hurt since I have not played FB in ages. But keep in mind that AA and PAcro also helps a little.
Another way is 'Withering' the ref mob and just attacking with one charge, the chaos/poison portion is increased by a shitton while the reflect damage is managable. You can't do that on a fire version of course.

As for the long Flamebast charge times, I think you're making crucial a mistake of thought: Do we really need a max stacked FB to clear trash? The answer is simply no. Just one Flametap with Bino prolif should take easy care of a pack. How much cast speed you have does not really matter in this case.

As for stronger enemies, it's getting interesting here. What I have thought of is making use of Decoy Totem. It should definitely be able to distrace a boss/rare for 1.5 seconds till the blast is fully charged.

Mana problems should be solved using Elreon rings, got some tips from a friend having played noncrit chaosblast this league.

As for the 90+ thing, I don't think this is a build that should do high level content. The defence is simply not strong enough for that. It's a build to have fun with.


Now for your tree.

I have mixed feelings about jewel sockets. Of course they have insane value if you have gg jewels. But those are expensive. So I leave them as a high level option.

As for actual life on tree, our versions do have the exact same amount - 165%.

But your version does not have (Phase-) Acrobatics.

Why did you not take Annihilation or Doom Cast? Because AM provides the rest of the crit? Keep refect immune stuff in mind, and also the critmulti those nodes provide.

See above for my oppinion on cast speed.

Other than that the tree is very similar.


Gem setup: My version does not require cast speed, penetration or AoE (because prolif). I can easily grab more damage.

Thanks for doing the maths, however I don't think comparing dps for flameblast builds makes much sense. I am also definitely maxed on crit, seems like you forgot to take some crit into account, for example from Assassin's small nodes.

Your dot seems way higher, because of 80% of initial hit I guess. But we have to keep in mind that prolifed poison can stack.

I personally do not build for high clearspeed or high tooltip. I try to make fun builds, so those do not matter as much to me.

If you want to shock or 'shatter' you can easily (ab)use Vaal Lightning Trap and Abyssal Cry.

About using or not using Mary, such an amulet you described is easily worth multiple exalts. Mary is one chaos and can be scienced.

As for the exact gem setup, I'll just try it out when it's time. No real use calculating exact numbers at this point.


After all that being said, I am definitely interested how your fire version works out, we should map a bit together in Ascendancy :)



@Phys

Why is FB not viable to generate PC? I don't see a problem with it. If it really should not be for a reason I can't think of atm any fast hitting spell on cwdt with pcoc makes more sense than Ice Spear, since the crit will be capped/high even for 5% basecrit spells like FS, BL, GC.

See above for my oppinion on AoE and prolif.

Very good point on WM. Elreon rings to the rescue.

Good point on the ele ref.

About Inquisitor, that is indeed does not make much sense. Keep in mind you won't have ~170% more critchance as Inq, so you would not crit/ignite reliably. Then you talk about pen and negative resists. Why did you propose Inquisitor again?! Then you talk about Elemental Focus. On a ignite build. Meh. I'd rather take the ignite (also for reflect cases).

"

PhysoniumI wrote:

Flameblast isn't viable to generate power charges, so we toss it out. Immediately go for a Ice Spear GMP PCoC setup. VERY easy to sustain power charges, costs a 3L though.

I don't think it would be that great to hit mobs first with a build that relies on Ambush. Not to mention it is very annoying to use. Also Ass Mark gives you effectively 40% more dmg. There is simply no way you wouldn't use it.

"

PhysoniumI wrote:

The necessity of prolif is rather suspect to me, except in high density maps. In most cases, an iAoE flameblast should encompas the pack completely, and maybe with a single small flameblast to clean up anything left, a rough 2.3s to clear 1 pack. Plenty fast.

The point was that Bino's prolif was the only thing even slightly saving the clear speed. Flameblast with low cast speed (and AoE) feels bad and is dangerous. 2.3s per pack is TERRIBLE clear speed. You should be clearing multiple packs per second.

"

Warlords Mark is not a viable mana sustain method as you will fill up once per pack because that's about all your hitting. You should only look at it for the leech and endurance charge aspect.

I honestly don't understand what you mean by WM not working as a method for sustain. You channel Flameblast (which is gonna take like 20% of your remaining mana), kill the pack, be at 100% mana (??? -> Profit). Works for reduced regen and no regen maps. You would only need a mana flask - or whatever you decided on using - for no leech maps.

"

About your idea Cabesi:
Personally, Inquisitor would be a better option, with investment on tree for conversion. You're hitting big and elemental, so why not hit even bigger to maximize that DPS? You'll should still cap crit if you go for a tree somewhat similar to Legasi's, and that extra 30%+ life won't save you from reflect anyway, so why bother? You can then swap Fire Pen (as it would likely be lackluster due to diminishing returns after roughly -70% fire res on most mobs) for Elemental Focus. I can't think of a single mob in the game that would then be tanky enough to NOT be 1shot in that case, making burn scaling irrelevant. Rough guestimation of 2-3mill hit at 10 stacks, haven't done the math though.

You'd still have no Marylene's Fallacy, but you get a bunch of cast and attack speed coming into packs assuming you're using Whirling Blades, along with guaranteed 20% increased spell damage, as each stack will refresh the buff from Instruments of Virtue. Righteous Providence helps make up for the loss of Assassin crit and Inevitable Judgement is just... 400% more damage or so. Yay.

If I prove to be 100% full of bullshit, pardon my insanity. Legasi's used to it. Deal with it, I'm here to stay.

Now, sorry if you typed this drunk, but I am gonna go through this part of the post one quote at a time.

"

You're hitting big and elemental, so why not hit even bigger to maximize that DPS?

First off, I don't need to "maximize" my DPS. Second, it's not even true as I am gonna show in a second.

"

You'll should still cap crit if you go for a tree somewhat similar to Legasi's

I don't think you have understood why Assassin and in particular Flameblast are a good combination. It's because Ambush gives you 100% more crit chance on the first hit. That is what allows you - in addition with Deadly Infusion also giving you, in effect, 70% more crit - to cap crit. Without these two nodes there is no way you would come close to capping crit on a 5% base spell even with super hard gear and node investment, not to mention losing on all the free crit multi.

"

and that extra 30%+ life won't save you from reflect anyway, so why bother?

I might accept dying to reflect from a time to time, but that's just an extra reason to not accept dying to anything else.

"

You can then swap Fire Pen (as it would likely be lackluster due to diminishing returns after roughly -70% fire res on most mobs) for Elemental Focus

How are the mobs ever gonna get to -70% res?? I am pretty sure Inevitable Judgement mean's your skills would ignore anything under 0% res. But even then, how would they got to -70%? I am not using Flammability. Which only lowers resists of bosses by about 17.5% anyway. Other than that, yes, with Inquisitor you wouldn't use pen. Still wouldn't use Ele Focus, though.

"

I can't think of a single mob in the game that would then be tanky enough to NOT be 1shot in that case, making burn scaling irrelevant.

I am not spending any extra points on scaling burn. So the only thing I would be doing (even IF I was playing as Inquisitor) is getting 44%(?) more upfront damage for 50% less overall damage.

"

Righteous Providence helps make up for the loss of Assassin crit and Inevitable Judgement is just... 400% more damage or so. Yay.

Yeah, it helps, by an extremely tiny amount by comparison. 400% more damage only in the best possible scenario - the only scenario - when the map is 80% fire res. EE shouldn't affect us and the absolute majority of bosses have 30-45 res.

The Inquisitor is very strong, but definitely NOT the right choice for THIS build.

"

Legasi wrote:

Yo Cabesi, thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts! Okay, let's try to break it down.

I personally don't see a problem with wearing IM. BlaspWM and AA is just right for mana. In a dual curse scenario cwdt WM works absolutely fine (check out my Masterpiece build if you are sceptical). You're also talking about dual curse without speccing for it in the tree, quite brave if you want to do that in a new league. But let's leave your skilltree for later.

Doedre's rings are very cheap and easy to get even at the start of the league. I believe you it works reaching some goal, it is not however, the same as having it on Blasphemy.

"

As for the reflect, that is indeed a problem. Simplest (not easiest) would be dual wielding CD in the offhand and weapon swap for ref mobs/maps. I can't really tell how much reflect is actually going to hurt since I have not played FB in ages. But keep in mind that AA and PAcro also helps a little.
Another way is 'Withering' the ref mob and just attacking with one charge, the chaos/poison portion is increased by a shitton while the reflect damage is managable. You can't do that on a fire version of course.

Well, I can tell you that. And I did :o. But let's not get sidetracked. Yes, WHEN you see a reflect and have time to react to it, there are ways to deal with it (I would use flame totem with my build). But what happens when you have charged your flameblast and now a rare ele reflect leaper jumped into it?

"

As for the long Flamebast charge times, I think you're making crucial a mistake of thought: Do we really need a max stacked FB to clear trash? The answer is simply no. Just one Flametap with Bino prolif should take easy care of a pack. How much cast speed you have does not really matter in this case.

Have you played with Bino's recently? The prolif is very unreliable. If you have a pack of zombies and you only hit the edge, then yes, the whole pack dies. You hit a pack of not so clustered mobs, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. You have a screen with randomly placed mobs? It will take you several blasts to kill them. In short, it sucks compared to a fast charge blasts with max AoE. The Flamedab variant - which I actually played - unfortunately died after the Ele Prolif gem nerf. Bino's is not bringing it back.

"

Now for your tree.

I have mixed feelings about jewel sockets. Of course they have insane value if you have gg jewels. But those are expensive. So I leave them as a high level option.

Not really the case. Jewels I used for my calcuation all had: 12% crit multi, 6% life, 5% cast speed. Gettable for roughly 20-30c a few weeks into the league.

"

As for actual life on tree, our versions do have the exact same amount - 165%.

But your version does not have (Phase-) Acrobatics.

Yes, I think your build is a bit better defensively.

"

Why did you not take Annihilation or Doom Cast? Because AM provides the rest of the crit? Keep refect immune stuff in mind, and also the critmulti those nodes provide.

See above for my oppinion on cast speed.

Other than that the tree is very similar.

Yes, I got to 96% without the nodes. I do keep that in mind, but taking other nodes simply turned out to be better.

"

Gem setup: My version does not require cast speed, penetration or AoE (because prolif). I can easily grab more damage.

Well, this is where our opinions simply differ, I guess.

"

Thanks for doing the maths, however I don't think comparing dps for flameblast builds makes much sense. I am also definitely maxed on crit, seems like you forgot to take some crit into account, for example from Assassin's small nodes.

I didn't include IM, as mentioned.

"

After all that being said, I am definitely interested how your fire version works out, we should map a bit together in Ascendancy :)

Sure thing :-).