So I was planning a Duelist archer build, then looked at the Ascendancy subclasses...

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Shppy wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Well, admittedly this is very hipster of me, but I am planning on going that Gladiator route when the expansion hits, and crafting myself up a nice Tora's bow. Those explosions are based off 20% of monster max life; that seems crazy to me.

I don't think it'd be the best build, just one of the funnest.

[...]

Champion has the obvious perma-fortify route and defensive regular nodes, but when it comes down to it bow-users are the last characters that would need fortify. It might come in handy for some extremely-safe HC builds, but most will realize it's wasted potential for overkill-levels of safety. I've got an armor/ev non-crit bow character already in talisman, a perfect candidate for a duelist bow build (although i made it as a scion), and i still wouldn't consider using Champion, because it's a ludicrously safe playstyle already and has zero need to waste potential on perma-fortify when it could get so much better offense and utility elsewhere.

That's exactly what I'm saying, although you managed to phrase it better than me. Have a cookie. :)


Also, let's say you spend 4 of your 6 points on the perma fortify line... and then what? What can you get with the remaining 2 points? Some more EV/AR and 30% increased damage. Whoop-de-doo. Meanwhile Deadeyes will be struggling to decide which of their notables to give up, since each of them are comparable to a unique item in power.


I guess if Slayer's "two-handed weapon" nodes actually do work with bows, then you can get something out of that subclass, but it's just increased damage, and most of that is situational. Still nowhere near Ranger/Shadow.

For my build Champion is so OP.
I will have like 22-28k armor, fortify, ~20k dps with frenzy charges, 48% move speed. I hope Fortify will be permanent one :) Not some on hit :(

Hi

As a whole Some workers at GGG really don't understand the master of arms, duelist, all three of that characters classes are designed for melee, seems like bow duelists are an after thought.

Fortify, in the fine print works only on melee, until GGG writes otherwise or until they release the classes I am maintaining that assumption (if fortify via the ascendancy does turn out to work with bows that will be FREAKING AWESOME).

Champion seems like the most accessible class for ranged oriented builds (minus the fortify branch), slayer and gladiator as a whole seem very melee oriented, like bows maybe use two hands but are not considered a two handed weapon, so again pretty sure it will be melee oriented only. Taunting with a bow I am thinking will work.

GGG should have stuck to a simple formula for all classes with ascendancies: melee class, ranged class, spell class that way it would have allowed for the maximum amount of flexibility with players choices.

I wrote on this before and am glad to see others see this issue with the duelist, keep in mind these are speculations. I am very curious to see how this turns out, make or break!

cheers

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Finkenstein wrote:

GGG should have stuck to a simple formula for all classes with ascendancies: melee class, ranged class, spell class that way it would have allowed for the maximum amount of flexibility with players choices.

It would also have been tremendously boring. As they did it, several classes can be used for both melee and ranged, which is awesome.

I don't want to play a wankering duelist just to make sense as melee!!!

I want marauder!

Fix the fuckup GGG before you unleash it like that, broken and flawed!

Move champion to marauder and make a ranged Duelist class. Thanks. :D:DD:D:DD


It makes sense in every way, just from the marauder being a tribal person(championing for his people), to placing free fortify as far away from all ranged builds(hardest to build around for ranged), to it being the pure fighter stats in that tree, and taunt which is the the big brute tanks etc etc etc. Everything fits. Make it happpeeeeenn!!!

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suszterpatt wrote:

...and realized that the ones for the Duelist all completely suck for archery.

Can anyone explain this:

Slayer 3/6 skills work with bows
champion 5/6 skills work with bows
gladiator 6/6 skills work with bows

skills that work with bow user have green circle:
http://i.imgur.com/GCroVAF.png
http://i.imgur.com/KeQjIBb.png
http://i.imgur.com/MIsTP0a.png

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kamil1210 wrote:

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suszterpatt wrote:

...and realized that the ones for the Duelist all completely suck for archery.

Can anyone explain this:

Slayer 3/6 skills work with bows
champion 5/6 skills work with bows
gladiator 6/6 skills work with bows

Okay. By "Slayer" you mean Gladiator, by "gladiator" you mean Champion, and by "champion" you mean Slayer.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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kamil1210 wrote:

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suszterpatt wrote:

...and realized that the ones for the Duelist all completely suck for archery.

Can anyone explain this:

Slayer 3/6 skills work with bows
champion 5/6 skills work with bows
gladiator 6/6 skills work with bows

Okay. By "Slayer" you mean Gladiator, by "gladiator" you mean Champion, and by "champion" you mean Slayer.

That's quite funny. Reminds me of this.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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SirSid wrote:

Last night i think this really jumped out at me and hit me in the face .. twice. First off i was in a party with my RM marader character , 1 of the players ( i later found out was a dimond suporter ) started to rage that i had a OP build cuz i use a khoams heart chest .... well i don't use a khomas heart chest . So i explaned to him that not only do u not need a khoms to make a build like this do alot of damage but that running a koams had a few draw backs for the build . Well the fight was on , acording to him RF maraders coast 100 + ex to make work ( even though this paticular RF Marader im running has about a total of 10 EX worth of gear ( including a legacy shild ) The guy had his mind made up thare was no changing it.

It's a work of art. You managed to write Kaom's four times, all different, and none right.

Amazing.

+1

As i already explained in a previous post, Gladiator's Block Path Notables work with bows too, but you must equip a Rearguard quiver


So all in all EVERY SINGLE NOTABLE seems to apply to bows (yes even Impact on the Slayer which provides splash to melee attacks, has a second bonus of 15% increased AoE which is untyped/unspecified global bonus)

EDIT: "Outmatch and Outlast" notable on Gladiator specifies either main hand or off-hand so that probably does not apply to bows

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NeroNoah wrote:

How did you build your archer duelist? (specifically the defenses) Do you have any guide? I'm doing the same, I wanted to compare.

Well, again, Scion rather than duelist, just cuz i wanted to reach the shadow area and going through ranger was less ideal for my priorities, but even so...


No, I don't have a guide, although you can probably glance at my Deadeye_Shppy character to get the gist of it (although i've take some of her gear for other builds). Pretty much just used Lioneye's Vision/Glare and armor/ev gear. Even running double Andy's plus Aurseize with less than 4k life i had no real issues with most content (never got to t14+s), just because of the sheer level of safety with offscreening and using some of the other outstanding active defenses archers have (namely blink arrow and ice shot totems).

Reflect was a mild issue, ele reflect rares *could* get to me on occasion if the stars aligned and my lightning arrow managed to hit it a few dozen times in the middle of a large pack. Ele reflect maps weren't a problem as long as i was aware the reflect was there, my Iceshot totems were capable of clearing given a little time and irritation, my puncture traps obviously ignored reflect, and my frenzy, being single-ish target, didn't reflect much damage even with phys reflect.