3.0 Dual Striker Leechtank The Wolf Bleeds Yet Dies Not 2xCORE SHAPER UBER ATZ [Umbra-Soup-Rogue]

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roguemjb wrote:

PS: no, Umbra was not talking about putting you down, relax, he says stupid shit like that all the way through the 160 page thread lol

yeah, at points there are entire pages of it due to some issue with the forum not actually bumping the thread

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roguemjb wrote:

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Philkingz wrote:

I feel you two tried to take the mickey out of me.

After reading through your whole post, I kinda think you just want a different build. But really, it does come to experience. A lot of your reasoning is for single target. When I say I want as few milliseconds as possible between hits, I mean in huge dense packs, like fighting harbinger packs. All those monsters could theoretically hit me at the same nanosecond and kill me. And then there are ranged mobs, as soon as I destroy everything melee around me, I use whirling blades (activating fortify) to zip into the next monsters and keep leeching. Cleave is an okay skill, I used to be all about it, and Umbra has even mentioned that it is viable, but Dual Strike has solid aoe already and much better single target. Fortify on Cleave is great, especially for long fights where yes, you hold down the mouse button and fortify comes off, but then you have much lower single target damage. But it's not wrong, if you like it, go for it. Most bosses allow a movement skill at some points, so fortify is still on a lot of time. And nobody recommended 8k for Shaper, a guy on here did it with 6700 life iirc, but he was almost 1 shot by one of the between phase bosses.

The build takes practice and it might not be for everybody. Once you get to 80+ with solid gear, try out a few things. The PoB numbers aren't everything. If you like Cleave and Maim and no Faster Attacks, then go for it, let us know how it feels.

I will work on uploading some super dense 10+ mod abyss maps to show solid mapping. Cheers, friendos :)

PS: no, Umbra was not talking about putting you down, relax, he says stupid shit like that all the way through the 160 page thread lol

He wants to argue, not play the game Rogue. He clearly feels like we slipped him the mickey. He's already on the defensive and posted a wall of text against us and demands an answer. Just let him stay mad and go play another build. We don't need dudes like this on our thread. He isn't listening and already made up his mind that he wants Maim against our advice and doesn't respect that we don't want to sit here explaining to him for 20 replies why faster attacks is still better despite some stupid POB code. Let him use maim and die a lot and wonder why. He's a smart cookie, why else would he talk so much. He should school us some more on the mechanics of the game since we're dumb. Good thing he posted that wall of text. I would have never known about all that stuff I've been doing for 1400 hours and that Soup did for 1000 hours and lord knows how many hours you've been playing dual striker Rogue.

Pff. MMO communities are obnoxious. I'm glad dudes like this only come once per month like a period, or else I'd delete the dual striker thread to make them shut up. Must be that time of the month.

BUMP THIS STEAMING TERD

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kellewic wrote:

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roguemjb wrote:

PS: no, Umbra was not talking about putting you down, relax, he says stupid shit like that all the way through the 160 page thread lol

yeah, at points there are entire pages of it due to some issue with the forum not actually bumping the thread

there is an error where I cannot bump the thread so I write bump every once in a while. Sometimes I am silly and write silly things. I could never have imagined this would have offended anyone. But I don't care anyway.

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PS: no, Umbra was not talking about putting you down, relax, he says stupid shit like that all the way through the 160 page thread lol

Thank you for that clarification and your friendly tone.

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And nobody recommended 8k for Shaper

Seems this is a mistake and on my part, sorry.

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All those monsters could theoretically hit me at the same nanosecond and kill me

When they hit you at the same nanosecond, they definitely do, mate.^^

My arguments did not just cover up singletarget - I simply face the problem with monsterpacks from another direction:

You assume, and reasonably so, that having higher frequency of leeching attacks will increase the chance to be healed up after getting a flurry of attacks.
I do the same, but i dont stop there. I go further and say this is only true to an extend. When you reach breakpoints, the deciding factors become: missing aoe, wrong targeting and positioning. Hence, i improve those factors instead of pushing IaS into the clouds.

In this regard Umbra's statement ("DO NOT PLAY SAFE. DO NOT EDGE MOBS, LEAP INTO..) may also be misleading for beginners. Im sure he means you must not stop attacking to ensure leech everytime and that you should position yourself the way you're able to hit as many monsters as possible, as it is vital for either leech or reducing the backlash. The edge-thing, however, is more depending on your aoe-shape( cone vs circle). In general edging is not a problem so long you understand what to do.


The actual problem begins when you edge, kill let's say 4 out of 12 monsters in a flurry of blows and then having no more monsters in range to instantly leech up against range attacks from the rest. There is something even worse: You go in, you kill some, and then you autotarget 1 or 2 poor bastards next to you while a full warband of bullshit-affixes jizzes their love onto you. This is exaggerating, but from what i read about your response, you get the point.

In that situation a longer series of attacks (multi) prevents you from whirling instantly onto them, not only for leech but also for stuns. People tend to panick and facetank with multistrike instead, since they experienced dying when trying to "leapslam" out of the situation. But there are two points unsaid:
-) Multistrike made dodging worse as it lengthened the delay and attacked the wrong targets. Hence, they try to compensate/fix that with more IaS.
-)With more AoE (i realy mean the AoE, not damage), better positioning and aiming the situation
could have been handled in the first place.

But what should they have done differently if multistrike takes the aiming-component anyway? That is what i meant with: Multistrike promotes facetanking. I wrote enough of that stuff and how i link surviveability more to avoid multistriking than increasing IaA etc. in my walloftext. I simply let it stand, although i doubt anybody except you is willing/bringing up the energy to actually read it through.


I agree that everyone should make his own experience, good and bad alike. I only want to emphasize that this also includes to not let the own experiences become unshackable, since it is basis for own progression, but also for advice to others. With that im going in my first vacation for years.


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ps: One last thing, though.
Depending on what you define as a lot, the difference between Dualstrike and Cleave is this:
Dualstrike: 2*104 (base) + 104*0,2*2 (Might and Influence) = 249%
Cleave: 2*163*0,6= 195%
Considering conc-effect in a 6link the difference becomes just 5%.
That is your character with braindead-max-dps-setup: https://imgur.com/a/4W4CL

What bugs me out a little is that brutality is even stronger than added fire, although you use hatred, which deactivates with brutality. Even maim is stronger than added Fire. Seems like full physical builds have become really strong and they do not even get resisted by bosses. This also means you have a slot for one more defensive aura, of when you feel pimpy enough, haste or mortal conviction.

no dual strike needs you to dive into mobs for circular leeching + splash to stun and flash kill. Edging mobs causes you to partially attack a mob and take extra damage from those out of reach

I hate being quoted, like my words are used against me

I can't write everything because people complain I'm not concise
I write too little people bombard me with shit like now
I write too thoroughly people stop reading because only an eggbrain is gonna want the math
I write without pictures people complain

There's no winning and you terds can't possibly know why I'm irate 90% of the time. Because I poured a large chunk into this guy and it's never good enough, so yeah I'm not friendly. Go use maim and die. Shit, wtf do I care I'm not paid at all. It's a stupid game and your verbal diarrhea taking my quotes and posting math is insulting. We fucking know this info. Get the fuck out of here!!!

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Umbra_the_Wolf wrote:

He wants to argue, not play the game Rogue. He clearly feels like we slipped him the mickey. He's already on the defensive and posted a wall of text against us and demands an answer. Just let him stay mad and go play another build. We don't need dudes like this on our thread. He isn't listening and already made up his mind that he wants Maim against our advice and doesn't respect that we don't want to sit here explaining to him for 20 replies why faster attacks is still better despite some stupid POB code. Let him use maim and die a lot and wonder why. He's a smart cookie, why else would he talk so much. He should school us some more on the mechanics of the game since we're dumb. Good thing he posted that wall of text. I would have never known about all that stuff I've been doing for 1400 hours and that Soup did for 1000 hours and lord knows how many hours you've been playing dual striker Rogue.

Pff. MMO communities are obnoxious. I'm glad dudes like this only come once per month like a period, or else I'd delete the dual striker thread to make them shut up. Must be that time of the month.

No problem - i wont waste my time on you any longer.

I did my part and wrote down in detail why i consider aps= survival a halftruth, how people come to that fallacy and what is inconsistent assuming all you say would be correct. I didnt wrote a wallofText 'cause im "on the defensive", but to face the work you put into this thread in an appropriate manner.

And while your mate, despite our differences, is trying to understand/attack my content, all you do is drawing it on a personal level with false allegations, argumentum ad hominem and blatant lies. If I did not know better, i would say you are american or brit. However, i know for sure that you just showed your real character.

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no dual strike needs you to dive into mobs for circular leeching + splash to stun and flash kill. Edging mobs causes you to partially attack a mob and take extra damage from those out of reach

... you did either not comprehend or read what i wrote - Im out of here.

bye get out bye bye bye bye