3.0 Dual Striker Leechtank The Wolf Bleeds Yet Dies Not 2xCORE SHAPER UBER ATZ [Umbra-Soup-Rogue]

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roguemjb wrote:

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trungtiu wrote:

hi, ty for nice build. I have some question:
what is pantheon you use ?
and i dont use bloodlust, what is the best gem i should have for 6 link?
Can you see my character on pob and help me what do i have to change ?
my id: trungtiu
character name: supersaiyankame

thank you very much :D

Pantheon I like is Solaris, the 6% is great against bosses and the Lady Stormflay is great too, capture her quick, only 1 crit every 4 seconds.

For minor I use Tukohama, easy 8% reduction against bosses again, though Gruthkul is okay and Yugul is good if you still get hurt by reflect.

I can't find the write up I did on the guide lol, Umbra point it out please

wow thank you I will use like this

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kellewic wrote:

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roguemjb wrote:

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kellewic wrote:

I've been waiting to post until I've had a chance to play this badass into the 70s. Only now am I having any trouble at all. I haven't played since early/mid 2014 so it's been interesting getting back up to speed. Been back about a month now and it's coming back to me.

This is a great build; absolutely love it. Granted, I did have a stash full of shit to choose from when I started. I rolled with dual Aurumvorax Rapiers probably until maybe level 60 when I replaced one with a 1.8x APS fancy foil I made. Now I have dual 1.9x APS jeweled foils I made - big difference. I think the resists on the rapiers helped a lot early on since with two of them it pushed me well over the 75% cap so helped with lack of speed against elemental damage.

I keep swapping out curses I use with CWDT but Punishment has been with me for a while and the buff is pretty much up all the time. The Increased Duration I have in there is probably not as useful as it was before since everything just kind of melts - especially if I pop Abyssal Cry. Still playing around with the gem setup.

Tried buying a few upgrades, but getting anyone selling anything on poe.trade to even answer has been a chore. So I found/made what I have excepting the uniques which I already had in my stash.

Did a map the other day and I think I was getting cold crit striked to death since I kept freezing. Probably need to work on those resistances to help there.

Looking for some suggestions on anything. Are my weapons, hat, armor good enough for 70s? Most everything else I've been wearing for probably 20 levels so definitely need some attention there. Gems good? Passives?

Thanks!

Yes, by 72 you need to replace ALL that gear. Get Kaom's Roots asap and never be frozen again, but yeah, you're wearing super low gear. If money is an issue, buy 2 Ichimonji swords, they are cheap and super fast and high dps, should only be a couple chaos each. If you have currency, get some 300+- phys dps swords, and search 1.9+ aps. You will see a MASSIVE damage boost.

Life and resists are priority on jewelry and belts, get those stacked and worry about phys damage later. Gloves at least need attack speed in addition to life.

Have a read through the guide again, lots to improve on and you'll be wrecking maps like they're nothing.

Been logging in all week on and off to catch people online. Picked up some new gloves (had to level to wear them), a new belt, and sword. And yeah, once I got the sword... omfg, mobs just melt. Also not sure it's a leap slam any more - more like a teleport slam.

Still searching poe.trade to upgrade more items and find another comparable weapon.

The build definitely makes more sense to me once I got the high dps, fast weapon. I think before I was trying to make up for having shitty dps.

This makes me so happy to hear man. Melt those punks!

bump this terd

woofie go woof woof woofy woof! Bites your butt then gets put down. Bye byes woof woof.

banana

bump

The reason why i mentioned the PoB thing was not for dps-whoring, but quite the opposite.
During the past year the forum became full of builds that claim to have a shaper dps of >1 million, but when you take a close look the sustained dps is not even 400k,
sometimes even lower. This dps-bullshitting is not only false claiming, it is damaging to the community's perception. And most players are in bare need of mechanical knowledge and experience. Your thread is popular and it would be a shame if it contributes to one, but distorts the other.

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I can say you're not likely to get many good responses coming off so confrontational

I didnt realize that i was. Hiouli had a fine question, but got an unreasonable answer (from my point of view). I tried to make you pay attention to that and didnt mean to unsettle you.

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woofie go woof woof woofy woof! Bites your butt then gets put down. Bye byes woof woof.

Tell me that i should put the gloves back on and that you did not mean me (Josh).
Otherwise it would mean that you are doing what you blamed me of doing: just dishing out. Do you use this thread to bolster your ego or to share information and discussions with the community?


I quess you really want me to answer then...
Im not very keen on it...

About:ApS = survivability => FA = mandatory/ maim = only good for totem

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Maim provides the debuff 'Enemies maimed by supported skills take x% increased physical damage', which is the only reason it's in our set up at all.

That is like saying a 29% more phys multiplier is complete irrelevant as soley ApS matters.

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Giving up Faster Attacks is unacceptable. The fewer milliseconds between your leeching the better.

I call this a fallacy as it reduces the important factors of a system to an argument of quality without taking quantity into account.
You say:higher frequency = higher chance to heal up between series of attacks which sounds good, but it is just true to some extend; hence plain wrong.

It should be more something like that at Z it is true that: X% higher frequency results in Y%higher chance to heal up between series of attacks. This would include breakpoints to measure how good 1% IaA is in terms of surviveabiliy, instead of just maximizing is.

The contraposition of this statement is obviously equivalent and let's take a look at that/ as well as you mentioned PoB to see what you really just said:
Z: I am at 15,44 ApS frequency
X: So I heal up every 0,064s
Y: lowering the frequence to 13,62 aps makes me just heal up every 0,073s
Giving this up is unacceptable

How you wanna proof that? Experience is no guarantor for that, quite the opposite as i'll show you. You would need a video-analysis "frame by frame" to even notice the difference of 0,009 seconds and show that this difference is the reason between life and death, and not just religion. Monsters are hitting with about 1,2 - 1,6 aps. In worst case with 0,625s between their attacks.
Can you imagine how hard it would be for those bastards, even if they hit you with 5 man in short consecutive interval to interleave their 0,62-delays so that 0,064s is life and 0,073s is death? This chance is smaller than my girlfriends' penis. Imagine it would be real, then it would certainly no argument for faster attacks, but better positioning and AoE to clear thrash faster without dying.
Then you could say that it's not about thrash, it's about bosses, but in that scenario you wont get hit by many attacks per second at all. Even shaper with increased attackspeed has only about 1,6 aps. Their abilities are the far more dangerous thing, but they also do not hit in high frequency, not even the shapers ice globes, which are supposed to be dodged, since they penetrate (resistances to effective life is not proportional).

Conclusion:
If you cannot follow my arguments, cause your "experience of dying" is so imminent when you do not attack with the same frequency as hamsters copulate, then think about two fact:
1.Other physical builds rely on the same mechanics, but clear the entire content no problem with 4-6 ApS.
2. How did you come to that conclusion? Maybe i can get an answer for you below....

...but before that i wanna pay attention to the fact that you:
-called a loss of 14% when dropping maim for FA in regards to DPS marginal
-and called an increase of 14% attackdelay, which results in 0,009 more seconds between attacks unacceptable.

What is a beginner, that struggles for help and has no mechanical knowledge to see through that, supposed to make of this stuff?





------------------About your reasoning process----------------
More interesting is the question why we do interpret things so differently. I can only make a quess, but it would explain your experience dying with low ApS in the first place. The typical mistake when people use multistrike is thinking that it just gives more attackspeed for less hitdamage. But it does more.

Multistrike gives 94% more attackspeed and takes the ability to instantly move after a strike by chaining a series of 3 attacks. You trade 94% more attackspeed for a 54% longer loss of control ((1/1,94)*3). Normal builds have about 6aps with multistrike, which results in half a second delay(3*1/6) before you can actually move/dodge.

That is certain death in some encounters like shaper/atziri. Additionally to the dodge thing it includes autotargeting, which can either:
- fuck up your leech by aiming at single targets when you should aim at the entire warband,
- kill you by reflect (atziris mirror)
- kill you by not targetting the cluster of monsters to instantly reduce the incoming DPS.
The first seconds when attacking a pack is important, not that you sustain it though gear.


How could one react to this trap?

1. Keep Multistrike and pushing attackspeed until you reach kolibri-status. Eventually it feels good and the intervals between activations grow short enough to be able to dodge again.
However, this does not prevent real oneshots (not the thrash shit that is result of bad positioning/targeting), hence much more HP is required to facetank shit through. It would explain why you recommend 8k HP vs shaper.
2. Dropping mulitstrike, but there havent been good alternatives in the past, so people chose option 1 and adapt to a bad habit.

Maybe it's time to rethink that with the new gems.


Alternating the Problem

For the sake of your years og experience with dualstrike, the copulating hamster-style and my lack of both - let's assume i am wrong.

Then you are right: Faster attacks and multistrike would be prefered for surviveability.
Accordingly you would play this build not for maximizing dps like a stupid, but for its ability to survive with high frequency of attacks. But you're no puss', you go in and there is no time to push another button (like movementskill+fortify) as there is no time fo 0,009s delay.
You thrash through monsters instead and bite onto the heels of bosses like a wiener dog 'til they die:"DO NOT PLAY SAFE. DO NOT EDGE MOBS, LEAP INTO THE CENTER OF MOBS OR YOU WILL DIE. PLAYING IT SAFE CAUSES DEATH."...

If that is your style, despite what i wrote down, that is okay.
But why would you still use dualstrike over cleave then?
- 20% reduced damage taken while your finger is glued to the mousebutton after fortify ran out.
- double aoe damage (and hence decrease the frequency at which you get hit)
- only a lose of 1% less damage, since you can use conc-effects.


I feel you two tried to take the mickey out of me.

I'm a bit confused how to follow the levelling trees for this build. Any tips?

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Philkingz wrote:

I feel you two tried to take the mickey out of me.

After reading through your whole post, I kinda think you just want a different build. But really, it does come to experience. A lot of your reasoning is for single target. When I say I want as few milliseconds as possible between hits, I mean in huge dense packs, like fighting harbinger packs. All those monsters could theoretically hit me at the same nanosecond and kill me. And then there are ranged mobs, as soon as I destroy everything melee around me, I use whirling blades (activating fortify) to zip into the next monsters and keep leeching. Cleave is an okay skill, I used to be all about it, and Umbra has even mentioned that it is viable, but Dual Strike has solid aoe already and much better single target. Fortify on Cleave is great, especially for long fights where yes, you hold down the mouse button and fortify comes off, but then you have much lower single target damage. But it's not wrong, if you like it, go for it. Most bosses allow a movement skill at some points, so fortify is still on a lot of time. And nobody recommended 8k for Shaper, a guy on here did it with 6700 life iirc, but he was almost 1 shot by one of the between phase bosses.

The build takes practice and it might not be for everybody. Once you get to 80+ with solid gear, try out a few things. The PoB numbers aren't everything. If you like Cleave and Maim and no Faster Attacks, then go for it, let us know how it feels.

I will work on uploading some super dense 10+ mod abyss maps to show solid mapping. Cheers, friendos :)

PS: no, Umbra was not talking about putting you down, relax, he says stupid shit like that all the way through the 160 page thread lol