[2.6] TankyTwirl - PhysSpell CoC Cyclone

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Ashkatar wrote:

let me guess, you don't have equilibrium with cold damage to attacks mod on ring/amulet/weapon, and you didn't try using ele weakness aura. Yes with zero penetration phys can "feel" better because ele res mobs are all over the place, that's just a feeling noobs get though until they try out getting any penetration at all. In the current state, nothing comes anywhere close in damage to discharge with vortex link for cast on crit, there's no point even comparing. Damage is all you should care about making a coc build, as that's just the meta for it right now kill before you get killed. And to do things differently, for the sake of doing them differently is all fair and square, until the op links his build in a reddit thread for best builds in current meta, saying it's the future xD

I'd say it comes close in fact, a well built coc discharger will win damage-wise, but the difference isnt as huge as you make it out to be. Remember you gain two vital slots, neck and chest, I'm currently wearing a 80% crit, 21% spell damage neck, which can in best case have two implicits including multi and/or 30% phys damage. In addition to some global phys mods being handy that arent available to regular spells.

You gain higher ES, higher crit, higher crit multi, higher spell damage, easier to balance resists, and a bit more life for less damage. Also you enable the full use of Atziri's Promise and Taste of Hate + other nifty stuff.

Having downed uber tons of times as a coc discharger i know what powerhouse it is, but this version is far from as gimpy as you make it out to be...

thanks krillox. I killed uber too alot on my Discharger and from the reddit thread Ashkatar talks about i can only assume that he never even did the fight or played Hybid CoC Discharge as he claims that this build can´t do uber reliable....

@ Ashkatar As i told you allready in the Reddit thread: the "it´s the future" was aimed at the hybrid nature of the build not at the spells used.

And no matter if i can kill uber or clear core, its just stupid calling a build "weak" if thats the only thing in the game it can´t do. If you can´t see that i am really sorry for you.

@krillox:

Still trying to get lvl 21 bladefall, failed 3 corrupts allready :-/

I´ll try to level up a Arc and see how it feels instead of the inc. crit strikes.

Would you switch the Arc to a Stormcall for the Uber try? Or use Crit Strikes there to get Flask charges back more reliable?

Was also thinking to run a PoF instead of the Warlords for uber to run RF better.

From trying a Set with my standard discharger yesterday i can say that my ehp pool with a Rise of the Phoenix would still be high enough to not get oneshot the only question is really just if it does enough damage on single targets.

You still keep grasping for the same branches to hold on to. I said it not just about your build in particular, which itself suffers the MOST from it, but CoC as a whole, it's very squishy, very easy to die. Making it hard to level and do uber sets reliably without clutch. Again, you have this standard sickness of thinking it's ok to die often, as long as you take a ton of dips and slap few things everybody knows work on top of each other, you clearly made something you need to share with others, but sorry it's the same old thing people did 2 years ago, year ago, and now today. If this is to level, than you die a lot and end up wasting currency. If you're making a 8+ex build just to farm normal atziri, than you're a masochist. You just slap a pool on top of damage nodes and you're like, yeah, yeah i got something this time for sure.

Right now the argument you two have, is basically, we got bored of discharge thus this is better, we didn't deal enough dps with your phys spells and the standard CoC tree, so we had to drop acro and have a LOT worse survivability. I don't get how can you possibly compare Discharge with vortex to blade fall ek, Discharge will be at 6-7 charges permanently, tooltip for which should be 13-15k at "ok" gear. For bladefall+ek on THE same gear you'd be looking at like 7k the two of them together TOPS even with good dps amulet.

IDK calling this "future" or "tanky*twirl" "or big dips" is just false advertising and silly in my book.

And I mean I'm just gona leave at this point because you're starting to talk about using purity of fire and rise of the phoenix in a CoC dagger build, I wish you the very best of luck, and please stop lieing to others, but most importantly to yourself.

(top tip, you could use atziri's phys belt + phys leech nodes in the tree for both mana and life, and drop leech gem from your 6l all together)

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Ashkatar wrote:

we didn't deal enough dps with your phys spells and the standard CoC tree, so we had to drop acro and have a LOT worse survivability.

You are stuck in 1.3

The "standard coc tree" in 2.0 is Hybrid these days. Even Mathil as the last defender of "4,5k life is enough" switch over because it just isn´t

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Ashkatar wrote:

I don't get how can you possibly compare Discharge with vortex to blade fall ek, Discharge will be at 6-7 charges permanently, tooltip for which should be 13-15k at "ok" gear. For bladefall+ek on THE same gear you'd be looking at like 7k the two of them together TOPS even with good dps amulet.

You look at TOOLTIPS on CoC Builds? I see you are the expert here!

Using my CoCulator and Matrix Factors Most OP CoC Discharge DPS Calculator i get the following results for the singletarget DPS:

Bladefall + EK = 64,7k
Discharge+Icenova = 68,7l

The calculation for Discharge includes 7 charges + EE damage bonus.
Calculations for Bladefall+EK are done with my stats from the char sheet at 6 Powercharges, so no lvl 21 spells.

If you want to check it yourself, here are both calculators:
CoCulator
Most OP Discharge Calculator

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Ashkatar wrote:

IDK calling this "future" or "tanky*twirl" "or big dips" is just false advertising and silly in my book.

I don´t know how many more times i have to say it the "the future" was about HYBRID CoC not specificly about this build.

Even if i never claimed that it deals that much deeps or more then others or anything like that after doing the calculations i don´t see how it would be silly or false advertising to say it.

About the Tanky part: in my book having 8-9k eHP, instant leech at 2,8-4%, constant endurance charges,immortal call, near 30% block all on a CoC build with good DPS is tanky.

Yes you can´t afk tank like a Aegis or anything like that but as long as you leech everything is fine.

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Ashkatar wrote:

And I mean I'm just gona leave at this point because you're starting to talk about using purity of fire and rise of the phoenix in a CoC dagger build, I wish you the very best of luck, and please stop lieing to others, but most importantly to yourself.

Yes i am talking about that because just yesterday i killed her with a PoF and RoP with my CoC Discharger without a single death. You just don´t know what you are taling about.

Plz stop talking about stuff you don´t know nothing about and only saw a streamer once do it.
Go on farming dried lake on your MF vaal sparker and don´t worry about ppl doing builds that can handle high maps.

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Ashkatar wrote:

(top tip, you could use atziri's phys belt + phys leech nodes in the tree for both mana and life, and drop leech gem from your 6l all together)

Wow. such display of pure amateurishness!

Doyanis belt is Dogshit. On Lifebuilds its even worse but even on a Hybrid a Rustic Sash is lots better because we can get Chaos Res here.

And sure, having 0.2% leech is exactly the same as having 2,6-4% leech...

The Phys Leech Nodes in the tree are for ATTACK DAMAGE not SPELL damage. Do you even know how CoC builds work?

At this point i really have to wonder if you know anything about this game or why you feel like talking about it with others that obviously know better.

8-9k LOL, in your video on atziri normal, you have 2.3 life and 4.9 es. 7.2k together. On pretty fucking insane es gear 600 from chest and 500 from the shield. Where the fuck are you planning to get another 2k, std mirror rmt shop? And even with that 7.2, you get down to half on LIFE more than 5 times during your NORMAL atziri run. Normal atziri 5k pool puff. If that's ok to you, again, i mean some people are born to be on standard and loosing 10% exp is no big deal to you whatever, power to the standards! Let me make it abundantly clear, there is nothing tanky about your build, it's as cluctch as it gets. Aside of i don't know, -75% res 0 armour 1k hp witch running through merciless, the next stepping stone is your type of survivals. One level of defense that's prone to be stun-city.com

That's nice of you to check out my profile currently, i guess you're getting salty, well yeah i'm playing vaal spark mf it's pretty insane. 5 days /played i already have many times your currency pool.

You keep saying doing high level maps is easy for you, you asked me like 6 times now what map to record, and I keep replying to you, record any 78-79+ ilvl map with high quantity 140% + or whatever, please do record it. Try for it to have any of these mods preferably several at once : Crit damage bonus, %ele dmg, movement as cast speeds, blood magic, reflect, 50% regen and lower, beyond, phys reflect. If you're doing high maps go on record one run it takes like 5 minutes.

And idk what ameteurism you're talking about with life leech, you said it yourself you're dealing equal damage to discharge right? well surely then 0.8% leech on vaal pact will sustain you so you can deal more dips on 6l? Oh wait your dips isn't enough to sustain, you're actually talking 4% now, where the fuck do you get another 2%? Do you seriously warlord mark curse now too? And I don't know in case you didn't get the memo, but tooltip is actually as close to real dps as you will get in poe, believe it or not it actually calculates correct numbers. So when you throw those calculators at me that I never felt the need to use, tell me how do those calcs exactly take into account the fact that bladefall for example has duration and not all waves of its blades hit the target, or coc ek will be firing in all directions spontaneously, does it take those things into consideration?

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Ashkatar wrote:

8-9k LOL, in your video on atziri normal, you have 2.3 life and 4.9 es. 7.2k together. On pretty fucking insane es gear 600 from chest and 500 from the shield. Where the fuck are you planning to get another 2k, std mirror rmt shop? And even with that 7.2, you get down to half on LIFE more than 5 times during your NORMAL atziri run. Normal atziri 5k pool puff. If that's ok to you, again, i mean some people are born to be on standard and loosing 10% exp is no big deal to you whatever, power to the standards!

In the Videos it was my old 130ES Chest.

Current ES is 6202 + 2152 Life.

I still don´t have ES rolsl on Rings and no 20% crafts on them, switched the bots from 210 ES to 100ES because i could not find high ES with move speed + res.

My belt has no ES roll, Amulet low roll, helmet is ok but could get higher.

So no it would NOT need mirrored gear to get higher ES.

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Ashkatar wrote:

And idk what ameteurism you're talking about with life leech,

I am talking about the fact that you tell me to take Life Leech nodes on the tree, that only do work for attacks, not for spells you genius.

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Ashkatar wrote:

you said it yourself you're dealing equal damage to discharge right? well surely then 0.8% leech on vaal pact will sustain you so you can deal more dips on 6l? Oh wait your dips isn't enough to sustain you're actually talking 4% now where the fuck do you get another 2% do you seriously warlord mark curse now too? And I don't know in case you have been told, but tooltip is actually as close to real dps as you will get in poe, believe it or not it actually calculates correct numbers. So when you throw those calculators at me that I never felt the need to use, tell me how do those calcs exactly take into account the fact that bladefall for example has duration and not all waves of its blades hit the target, or coc ek will be firing in all directions spontaneously, does it take those things into consideration?

No, 0,8 Leech isn´t enough.
Why do you keep talking about sttuff you don´t have a clue about?

0,8 Leech wil lbe fine for map clear most of the time if you have multiple targets to leech from, but its not enough on singletargets.

CoC EK does not "fire in all directions. Its aimed at the enemie you crit on.

Tooltip on Discharge does not calculate EE, number of charges you have on each discharge and does tell nothing about DPS because you don´t know the proc rate.

I honestly don't even care at this point, I just wanted to help you. Sorry, your build is amazing, it's totaly great and worth the cost and it's doing amazing things to change our view on this game. To many of us you have opened the eyes for the future to come, and for that i'm eternally grateful. You gotta admit though i did help, you got more bumps out of this discussion than you'll get for months to come xD

I tested a bit more and found that controlled Destruction seems to be a better damage boost then inc. crit strikes.

It does not support cyclone, only the spells so the chance for procing is not reduced.

In preparation for uber i tried a 3 Player HP normal Atziri and it went pretty well.

Only the Trio was a problem, if i can´t kill the cycloner as fast as i do with 1p hp the chaos damage trail can really hurt.

would need to get a switch item with higher chaos res if i am going to try uber.

Vaals and Atziri herself went down without death.

Did not try to use RF this run.

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ZweihundertMorder wrote:

thanks krillox. I killed uber too alot on my Discharger and from the reddit thread Ashkatar talks about i can only assume that he never even did the fight or played Hybid CoC Discharge as he claims that this build can´t do uber reliable....

@ Ashkatar As i told you allready in the Reddit thread: the "it´s the future" was aimed at the hybrid nature of the build not at the spells used.

And no matter if i can kill uber or clear core, its just stupid calling a build "weak" if thats the only thing in the game it can´t do. If you can´t see that i am really sorry for you.

@krillox:

Still trying to get lvl 21 bladefall, failed 3 corrupts allready :-/

I´ll try to level up a Arc and see how it feels instead of the inc. crit strikes.

Would you switch the Arc to a Stormcall for the Uber try? Or use Crit Strikes there to get Flask charges back more reliable?

Was also thinking to run a PoF instead of the Warlords for uber to run RF better.

From trying a Set with my standard discharger yesterday i can say that my ehp pool with a Rise of the Phoenix would still be high enough to not get oneshot the only question is really just if it does enough damage on single targets.

Think i'll switch arc for ball lightning like i did on my mjolner for more flask charges tbh. I'll try uber within a few days, just need to polish my rings and dagger first, shouldnt be too hard i hope. :)

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Ashkatar wrote:

Stuff.

I've 2,8k hp and 7,8k es now in Talisman. Thats 10,6k ehp, and that's without properly crafted rings. Once again you prove you've no idea what you're talking about.

The build is as tanky as the Morerain by matrixfactor and many other hybrid builds that are reliable uber killers. Ooooonce again you show no understanding about this kind of builds comparing them to the hp/acro ones.

NO discharge build will be happy with 0,8% life leech, my guess is you havent even done one.
PS: the additional 2% is from Warlods mark which is commonly run with hybrid discharge builds.

Tooltip dps is NOT representative in most cases (PA, incinerate, Discharge, any conc effect type mods etc).

You've clearly no clue about basic game mechanics and are still trying to piss all over this for some unknown reason.

I think we all know who the salty one is here, why don't you leave the thread before you make an even bigger fool of yourself?