**GGG Balancing Ascendancy classes for PvP is a MUST before release !

As we all know PvP is great in poe, it is one aspect of the game that brings the most satisfaction once you reach a certain point and achieve the build you want and actually get results from it wether it is getting top ranks, having credit in the pvp community and etc.

Since 1.3 the damage of every build in PvP keeps getting increased, as we did notice this by GGG giving hard nerfs to some particular builds and things that i really dont need to mention again. We are actually at the VERY limit of where damage can potentially become too much, pools did not get increased whatsoever reguarding PvP while we keep getting damaged more after every patch. In the current state HLD PvP is not in a bad spot, yes it would require more tweaking but we can certainly have really good matchups between the top players and even mid-tiers. Some builds stomp more than others but could be fixed by changing T values or calculations and in the end getting balanced in pair with others.

From the unjustified removal of BCR for sword, which 2handers really needed in order to perform in the current HLD meta, yet there is nothing to compensate or even justify this removal. There absolutely needs to be a new global cluster for 2handers to penetrate tru block since they are handicaped from not having the possibility to wear a shield themselves. Yes i know bowers dont have such notables but their damage compensate for this has it is much higher than what 2handers can achieve, they NEED it in order to stay competitive and it is the reason why they are inexistent right now and removing this cluster completely destroys them even more.

Now onto the real reason why i made this thread is because of ascendency classes, remember i said earlier that since 1.3 damage was getting increased over and over without increasing defenses ? Well it is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH worse now. So worst that i'am scared for the future of PvP in this game more than i ever was before. The damage we will be able to achieve from those class is easily a DOUBLE multiplier or even TRIPLE without any increases to our es or life pools.

Here is a few exemple of the notables we will be able to get with ascendency:

Templar
Inevitable Judgement
Critical Strikes ignore Enemy Elemental Resistances
Non-Critical Strikes penetrates 10% of Enemy Elemental Resistances

So from now on every elemental damage dealer that works with crit is going to ignore ALL your resist uppon critting, i dont even want to mention how much % MORE damage this adds up, we are already getting instant degened by firetraps crit and things are getting even more insane, elemental crit skills are going to ignore res uppon every rolled crit which is astronomical damage outputs, nothing like we've seen before. You wont even need to use penetration gems anymore and you could simply use critical chance gems and making sure it is sufficient enough to land atleast 70% crit chance. This boost feels completely unjustified considering we already deal a ton of damage, yet our life/es pools are staying the same while the damage just keeps getting higher and higher. Such addons will require a lot of rebalance in order to retweak things so we can have a fair build match up system.

Ranger
Ranger Far Shot
Projectile Attacks gain damage as they travel, dealing up to 30% more Damage to targets as the projectile travels further.

As we all know bow characters in pvp are the ones dealing the most damage output in the game paired with crit and it has been so since the beginning, from EA dealing tremendous aoe damage and arrows travelling at light speed with possibilities of reaching offscreen really easily. Right now crit bow builds are capable of easily 2 shotting any builds in this game wether it is from using puncture, LA, ice shot or even split arrow. A build paired with harbinger mirrored bow which is quite common nowadays using puncture and is easily capable of 1 shotting from the initial hit and bleeding, now imagine them having a pain attunement like notable without any drawback that makes them do 30% MORE damage as projectiles travels further is again completely unjustified and our pools are not increased to compensate for this. We are going to be stuck with 1 shotting rangers like never before.

EA is considered the most OP skill in pvp right now and i'am sure it could use some damage reductions reguarding the explosions, now imagine them doing 30% more damage once they stack arrows on you or on walls from shooting really far away and they do get more AOE ontop of that. Now just imagine the current EA damage dealing 30% MORE and having 20% increased aoe, such boost feels completely unjustified since EA is already dealing very high damage and we can easily tell by the amount of whine there is about this skill.

Shadow
Ambush
50% increased Critical Strike Multiplier against Enemies that are on Full Life
100% more Critical Strike Chance against Enemies that are on Full Life

Assassinate
Hits deal 30% increased Damage against Enemies that are on Low Life
100% more Critical Strike Chance against Enemies that are on Low Life
Critical Strikes have Culling Strike

Once again another notable that is completely unjustified when it comes to pvp, we were stuck back before 2.0 with crit dagger builds that could 1 shot any build before the gems got initially nerfed for pvp, well now they are going to be able to ALWAYS land a crit on a CI, life and even low life build. And we all know a dagger build is easily capable of having atleast 70% crit chance if you stack it properly. Now with only 1 simple node they are going to be capable of always critting without needing to really invest into crit chance.

Yet this doesn't stop here since this is usable with ANY crit build that we have in pvp, you wont even need to stack that much crit chance anymore and can simply focus on having the most per hit damage paired with the highest multiplier possible to achieve such insane outputs. An exemple would be a caster that has 55% chance to land a critical hit, with that notable against a CI character or another low life crit caster it will ALWAYS be rolling criticals and this will lead to who hits the other first in order to kill, there will be absolutely no counter plays whatsoever anymore.


Keep in mind that this was only a couple notables being stated, we dont even have the full release yet to know all the boosts that will be available, yet again our defense pools are staying the same on top of all those addons and the defense notables are only flavoring pve and serves no purpose for pvp. I also want to mention the people that will see their builds die from the unability to compete with others receiving these tremendous buffs, i'am pretty sure no one has the wealth or even the will to shift everything over like this, especially melee, non-crit and non-elemental builds. I think this will only lead to even more people quitting pvp and we are going to end up with a lesser pvp population than we already have, we will probably be able to count viable top tier builds on our hands...

I really think it is a NECESSITY and MUST to properly balance Ascendancy classes for PvP or completely disabling them in order to keep viable top-tier hld options on a generous number, you need to take a look into each class for pvp because some give way too much of an advantage over others. Something has to be done in order to keep damage from being too high either it is from adjusting T values and calculations, reducing the damage taken or increasing the pools effectiveness in pvp.

GGG We are part of your community and we DESERVE respect like everyone else in this damn game, we are probably the people that writes and takes the most time to post such huge walls of texts and explanation yet we are the last ones being taken care of. I'am supporting your game since day 1 and i barely do any PvE, i'am entirely dedicated to PvP and this is what is keeping me playing this game since 2011. It would make no sense for me to continue playing in such state and it is the same for everyone else in this PvP community, we are all going to end up retiring since this makes absolutely no sense for us to spend more trying to work around this and trust me it wont be possible unless it gets taken care of !

You claim yourself has a game that listens to it's community and especially trusted players that have been playing since the beginning, if that is true well put yours pants for once and LISTEN to us if you want to keep this part of your game alive and not lose a part of your community that loves pvping in this game. We gave money, supported the game, wrote WALLS of text, and we are going to get neglected like this when i myself pvp spent over 500$ to support your game ? JUST NO !

LISTEN TO YOUR PVP COMMUNITY FOR ONCE AND STOP PUTTING US ASIDE !!!

You build a game to take care of it, you dont make more aspects for no reason, you dont implement PvP for no reason and you certainly dont keep aside such obvious things, it would be a total disgrace for a TRUE developer to let things go on it's own like this and killing this part of his game without doing anything !!!

I'am SICK of repeating myself, others included. And i'am speaking in the name of every pvper here since i entirely know they are in par with me on this.

I encourage you to post constructive feedback on this thread as much as possible and keep away from posting any hostility so GGG has atleast something to work with in order to balance ascendency PVP.

Thanks,

Hauntworld

b

staaap

Where is TL;DR version? something like:
- "Don't let filthy cheap shadow-assassin builds oneshot my low life witch, I want to keep current OPness of properly geared low life builds untouched. Please no alternative to low life, 56% more damage from crit life based templar is a nonsense!"


Yes, ascendency classes will make hld look like 'oneshot fest' for everyone
IMO this will be better than what we have at the moment.

"

EFBBBF wrote:

Where is TL;DR version? something like:
- "Don't let filthy cheap shadow-assassin builds oneshot my low life witch, I want to keep current OPness of properly geared low life builds untouched. Please no alternative to low life, 56% more damage from crit life based templar is a nonsense!"


Yes, ascendency classes will make hld look like 'oneshot fest' for everyone
IMO this will be better than what we have at the moment.

You are truly clueless and you dont know what you are talking about, do you realize that my CURRENT hld build has the templar AOE nodes ? All i have to do in order to get the templar ignore res on crit is roll a damn templar, then you're the one who's gonna cry that it's too broken. By the way, crit life templar caster is very bad, you would never be able to stack enough life unless you use kaom's heart which removes the 6link possibility, you are 10 times better off rolling CI if you cannot afford low life.

I'am actually trying to save PVP and here this guys comes with the unconstructive feedback and want's the meta to shift to another 1 shot fest, why are you even playing PvP.

It's because of people like YOU that pvp is in the current state that we have, because no one does anything to try to fix it !

Also do you realize that my current witch build also passes by the shadow area ? If i want to get the 100% more crit chance i just have to roll a shadow.

Seriously just dont post anything if youre going to embarass yourself like this.

I really encourage anyone to start posting constructive stuff if you want stuff to move, by no means ascendency classes will make pvp in a better position than it is right now, just think about non-elemental builds or non-crit builds that are currently already struggling and it's practically impossible for them to get the same huge boosts that the classes i mentioned will have. Players like mullaxul with his 2 hander is going to go into the abyss and i'am certain that non crit melees will be dying and non viable at all into pvp if we dont do anything about it.


It is because of posts like this guy that doesn't care about anything that we are in such current state, i dedicated myself entirely on pvp in path of exile and by no means i'am doing this to put me in a better position, if all i'am trying to actually save the meta. If we would put ourseleves together we can get GGG to help us tune ascendance to seak for balance and i have done stuff like this in the past. I got skills fixed, nerfed, i got the old EA abuse with cold to fire fixed from a simple thread like this and people supporting it. Back when i made the very overpowered rf 1 shot build i wrote a letter to the GGG devs explaining how it works and how it has to be fixed, i dont have to mention everything but in the end it got nerfed for the right reasons. Yes it probably got nerfed into the abyss but atleast we stopped it from making pvp a huge mess of rf builds, and it is better like this.

I really dont care what others may think about me and my current build, i have done enough in this game to really not give a shit about increasing my potential but i do care about increasing the potential of everyone in pvp.

Here is an exemple of what the meta will be if ascendency does not get balanced.


Currently in our current state without ascendency the build diversity is like this ( $ = a build )

Top tier Current viable builds :

$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

Mid tier Semi viable builds :

$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

Low tier Non viable builds

$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ascendency meta :

Top tier Viable builds :

$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

Mid tier Semi viable builds :

$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

Low tier Non viable builds :

$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

I hope you can see where iam going with this, less viable builds since some are getting buffed which are already top tier, more builds becoming semi viable and mid tier builds because they cant compete in top anymore, and much more un-viable builds because they simply cannot compete at all.

Well I for one think they overdid the whole ascendancy marketing. Even if you take PVP out of the equation some ascendancy classes are way overturned for PVE. That means they will have to over-tune PVE to compensate, but how to achieve this when some ascendancy classes are defense oriented while some are DPS oriented. This will either be a game where u have to play in a group of 3+ with a tank, a support and a dps class or PVE will be trivial.

I can only conclude ascendancy classes will be substantially toned down before release.
Even if they are not, I welcome them as a new toy since the HLD meta is getting stale.

as for viable builds, well it all depends how u define viable.

"

missuse wrote:

Well I for one think they overdid the whole ascendancy marketing. Even if you take PVP out of the equation some ascendancy classes are way overturned for PVE. That means they will have to over-tune PVE to compensate, but how to achieve this when some ascendancy classes are defense oriented while some are DPS oriented. This will either be a game where u have to play in a group of 3+ with a tank, a support and a dps class or PVE will be trivial.

I can only conclude ascendancy classes will be substantially toned down before release.
Even if they are not, I welcome them as a new toy since the HLD meta is getting stale.

as for viable builds, well it all depends how u define viable.

Builds that can essentially compete in the top tier with others, semis are the ones that can but will struggle more.

I completely agree with the PVE part of your post, but i can only conclude on the PVP side that you are willing to let pvp decrease and welcome a bunch of 1 shot fest top-tier plays, things wont be competitive at all, it will all be down to who hits the other first in order to kill. The damage potential is going to be so huge that it would make no sense to even try to stack some defense, the game of dodging and blocking will be increased and even builds like Qbot who relies on being tanky to survive and kill over time is going to be useless with those damage outputs.

The meta might be stale right now but in order to have things balanced you sort of need to have a liner stale meta, it is impossible to keep things in order if it shifts dramastically like this, no one has the funds, wealth to afford to constantly adjust like this and especially people who will find their builds completely destroyed by this. Taking the mullaxul 2hsword exemple here again, he lost sword bcr cluster, god knows he isnt going to get any huge increase in dps from ascendency i highly doubt, so i can only conclude that this will only make people quit in the end and you're going to be stuck with an even worst stale meta with even less builds to play with in pvp.

I actually expected you to be on my side on this, seeing as you're welcoming such metabolism is disapointing me a bit.

As for GGG tuning down ascendency before release, i highly doubt.

You just expressively explained what I said before.

Yes, you too can spec in to any of ascendancy classes, but for well geared low life build it's not a big difference, who cares if your molten shell can deal now 16k pvp damage up from 12k.

I see no problem except - STD low life casters become a bit less 'exceptional'.

"

EFBBBF wrote:

You just expressively explained what I said before.

Yes, you too can spec in to any of ascendancy classes, but for well geared low life build it's not a big difference, who cares if your molten shell can deal now 16k pvp damage up from 12k.

I see no problem except - STD low life casters become a bit less 'exceptional'.

Oh so i get it, it isn't a big deal if my firestorm can now ignores 100% of your resistances, very logical indeed. I'm actually wondering if you know what ignoring resistances means, it's not 100% increased damage, it's 100% MORE. This was implented with only PvE in reguards because when it comes to PvP resists are more than essential, i suggest you make your resist 0% and try to go take some hits from any elemental crit skills currently, you'll understand why i'am worrying.

As for molten shell ofscoure it wont matter since it's already 1 shotting, but from your perception of how the damage will increase on it i can tell that you cant calculate properly and i will fix it for you.

My molten currently does X-Y ~ 30,000-55,000 fire damage, with 100% penetration on crit i can only result it into becoming ~ 60,000-160,000 fire damage which seems pretty odd that you concluded 16k up from 12k.