Puncture vs Viper strike

Why not both?
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DirkAustin wrote:
Why not both?


Might do that! Good answers, thanks.
I used Viper Strike before patch 1.2 to soften up mobs in preparation for culling them with Dominating Blow. In those days, you could rack up your VS stacks quickly with auto-targeting Multistrike and a fast weapon, no need for massive DPS.

With 1.2, Viper Strike turned into a fickle bitch pretty much useless for anything but pounding relentlessly on bosses. Its 50% chance to fail means it takes an erratic average of 8 hits to get 4 stacks going, so you still need a high-speed attack. But now that VS scales up with attack damage, you need a hard-hitting weapon as well. That pretty much limits your weapon choice to Bino's cheese grater or some high-crit Mirrored dagger. And with that much fire-power, why waste time with Viper Strike?
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RogueMage wrote:
I used Viper Strike before patch 1.2 to soften up mobs in preparation for culling them with Dominating Blow. In those days, you could rack up your VS stacks quickly with auto-targeting Multistrike and a fast weapon, no need for massive DPS.

With 1.2, Viper Strike turned into a fickle bitch pretty much useless for anything but pounding relentlessly on bosses. Its 50% chance to fail means it takes an erratic average of 8 hits to get 4 stacks going, so you still need a high-speed attack. But now that VS scales up with attack damage, you need a hard-hitting weapon as well. That pretty much limits your weapon choice to Bino's cheese grater or some high-crit Mirrored dagger. And with that much fire-power, why waste time with Viper Strike?


This thread went so well, keep the negativity outta here please.
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DirkAustin wrote:
This thread went so well, keep the negativity outta here please.

Oh noes, dirked again!
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RogueMage wrote:
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DirkAustin wrote:
This thread went so well, keep the negativity outta here please.

Oh noes, horny again!


Spoiler
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DirkAustin wrote:

Spoiler

My word you do look good in pink.
Having played both styles...its pretty arguable since we are talking about melle puncture vs viper strike here.

Pros of puncture:
A)Hits once and if good damage you wont need a second hit.
B)Moving targets taking increased damage,too much damage over a short period of time that can get extended and usually you wont need this as mobs are melting

Bad of Puncture:
Heavy investement of nodes,both crit and dmg ones to shine really good

B)if they are not moving,dmg is low bit consoderable,but many ranged mobs/bosses dont move that much around.So it becomes good on chasing mobs alone.

Good of viperstrike.

A)stacks can do considerable dmg.7 seconds might be too much as enemy melts before it and continue hits dont reset damage like puncture doesand each hit is an increase dmg source.

B)less node investment as it performs good with less nodes than puncture.

Bad

A)you need to land fast hits to be able to maximise efficienxy,and,on the same time not hinder its damage behind multistrikes and splashes,to really shine as a dot.

B)Potentialy getting hit more often as you try to apply more stacks.At the same time node investment shifts from the damaging ones to defensive ones,which is not a bad thing but still losing much damage potential compared to crit and puncture.

Both are good options though,but viper strike is for fast weapons and puncture can work equally good on slow hard hitting weapons




Bye bye desync!
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Charan wrote:
Provided the enemy doesn't have Chaos Inoculation and you're not using a bow, Viper Strike will stomp all over Puncture any day.

For a start, puncture's DoT is based on the initial damage packet. That means you need to have specced in the weapon you're using (costly, node-wise) and that you'll want to spend a few slots Supporting puncture with damage enhancements.

Secondly, you can't stack Puncture. If that initial hit sucked, the puncture will suck. Try again.

Thirdly, to capitalise on Puncture, you have to make the enemy move. So you're essentially playing tag, and not all the mobs are going to come chasing after you that quickly.

In contrast, Viper Strike is consistent Chaos damage over time. Every hit does precisely the same amount of damage. It blitzes puncture as a hit-and-run skill.

Any curse that benefits Puncture will benefit Viper Strike with equal efficacy, with perhaps Critical Weakness being the exception.

Being Chaos damage, Viper Strike eats mages for breakfast, again assuming they're not using CI, which to my knowledge very few mobs do.

Of course, if you're facing someone or something with CI, you put the Viper Strike away and go Puncture.

As a respectably leveled mobile melee shadow (63 during Closed Beta, could handle merc act 2 just fine), there was no time where I'd choose Puncture over Viper Strike.

Edit: a little low level math for you.

At level 16, Viper Strike does 221.7 Chaos damage per second for 7 seconds. You can stack it four times for roughly 900 chaos damage a second for 7 seconds.

At level 16, Puncture will do 16% of your initial hit over time (not specified how long bleed lasts, but I assume 5 seconds), and 80% extra if they're moving.

So regardless of how many nodes you've spent on your weapon, Viper Strike at level 16 will deal 900 damage a second for 7 seconds. Not bad for zero node investment.

Let's assume you really love your weapon and you've gotten, oh, 5000 damage from your puncture hit. You'll be dealing 800 extra damage for each second of the duration of the bleed, and almost 5000 a second if you can get them moving.

Obviously that's far more impressive than Viper Strike but my question is -- how many nodes did you spend on your weapon type to get Puncture to 5000 damage a hit?

I've never really focused on weapon speccing so I'm not really being hypothetical here. I just feel that if I can deal my weapon attack damage + 1k chaos damage a second for 7 seconds (usually much longer because I use TC and Increased Duration) then those nodes are better spent elsewhere.

My listed DPS with Viper Strike at level 63 was something really silly like 200, but as I said I was having no problem clearing merciless act 2 in closed.

I don't know. I have a puncture+flicker strike dagger shadow on the go right now and the only reason I'm not using Viper Strike is because I like seeing all that blood.



Tisk... Tisk... Someone is not playing maps...

Puncture is far superior, there are more moving enemies than stationary. In addition the strongest mobs are chaos immune... And they are fast. Viper strike is horrible. Have you not played against Dominus mini bosses?

Your articulation on this matter is all show no substance...
"Another... Solwitch thread." AST
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Last edited by solwitch#4681 on Sep 11, 2014, 6:36:05 PM
I have a crit ice shot character that uses puncture for single target damage. My ice shot does about 23,000 dps and my puncture does about 12,000 on the tooltip. I don't even have a drillneck yet. I have a 52% crit chance and a 600% multiplier. I literally one-shot piety and Dominus. Less than a second. Rogue exiles, too. They like to move around so puncture makes a joke out of them.

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