Map Changes in 2.0.4

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Asmosis wrote:

Maps should really keep their level listed instead of tiers, aside from the added headache of having to look it up, its going to display it anyway as soon as you start the map.

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silumit wrote:

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Asmosis wrote:

Maps should really keep their level listed instead of tiers, aside from the added headache of having to look it up, its going to display it anyway as soon as you start the map.

Well maybe they'll "fix" this too. But FFS, GGG, do you think your players don't know about iLvl?

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Chris wrote:

We've been working on a 2.0.4 patch for deployment late next week, before the One-month events start on the weekend.

This patch includes several changes related to the mapping end-game. We're keen to test them out in the one-month leagues and will gather data and feedback from players.

Map Drops
We've finished analysing map drops and usage from the Warbands and Tempest challenge leagues. Our conclusion was that map drops were slightly lower than we were happy with. We also noticed that many of the higher maps were being run through Zana rather than through actual dropped maps.

The 2.0.4 patch increases the rate of map drops to help with these two issues.

Map Difficulty
We have been examining the difficulty of maps, particularly regarding spikes of physical damage and the damage dealt by Act Four monsters. While we are relatively happy with the difficulty of the highest maps, the early maps suffer from spikes of damage that are too high. The damage dealt in the lowest two-thirds of maps is being reduced slightly. In addition, the damage dealt by Act Four monsters is being reviewed and problematic cases are being fixed in 2.0.4.

Map Symbol Colours
Previously, most maps had a yellow symbol. We've changed this colour to indicate whether maps are low-, medium- or high-tier. These groups specifically line up with the set of mods available to be rolled on the maps. For example, if the map has a red symbol, then the top mods are available. This also makes it easier to spot the relative tiers of maps in your stash.

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Map Levels are now Tiers
There are 15 tiers of maps, from level 68 to 82 inclusive. We've struggled for ages with the confusion caused by this. Players expect to play maps of their level (which can be way too hard for them), or make arguments about that they're level 95+ and can't find a level 80 map. Players with backgrounds in contemporary MMORPGs expect to play content equivalent to their level.

In order to resolve this confusion, maps now display a tier rather than a level. The level can easily be calculated. Tier 1 is level 68 (or level 66 if it's an old map graphic).

As a side note, this makes it hard to distinguish between old (pre-Awakening) unique maps and their post-Awakening counterparts. It may be best to put them in different places in your stash.

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Experience in Top Maps
Due to the increased levels of content in The Awakening and the ever-improving skill of our best players, people are reaching level 100 too quickly. Watching the intense challenge as players complete to reach this amazing accomplishment would be more fun for the community if it lasted longer. We want to make this change without affecting the regular levelling process.

There's an additional problem where the difference in experience between the highest tiers of maps is too large. The higher maps definitely need to grant more experience, but when an 82 map grants 35% more experience than a level 81 map, which grants 35% more experience than a level 80 map (and so on), then players really feel the pain of not sustaining the top maps. We wanted to reduce the difference between these upper tiers to more like 15%.

We have made some changes to the calculation of experience in level 77-82 maps. They now have effective experience levels (for the experience penalty calculation only) of 76.9, 77.7, 78.4, 79, 79.5 and 79.9 respectively. This achieves both of the above goals, while leaving all other players unaffected. It takes approximately twice as long to reach 100 from 99 as it did previously, and the difference in experience between the top-tier maps is around 15% per tier, rather than 35%. It's far less important to be running a level 82 map for experience than it was before.

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Ground Effects in Maps
There's a lot of work still to do on ground effects. However, in 2.0.4, some changes have been made to how they spawn in maps. These changes have the following consequences:

• Ground effects due to map mods now use significantly less server resources. This prevents problems occurring during times of peak player concurrency.
• Ground effects due to map mods now use significantly less bandwidth, which will result in much less lockstep stuttering. They will also contribute far less towards being disconnected when coming through portals.

There's definitely more we need to do to improve the performance of ground effects (and much of the rest of the game), but these initial changes will hopefully have a positive impact. We're looking forward to seeing how much they help.

The 2.0.4 patch contains a few other things, such as new Divination Cards and bug fixes, but the bulk of work in this patch has gone towards the above map changes.

As they're in 2.0.4, these changes will apply to Standard/Hardcore and also the one-month events. We will get a solid set of data from these events, which we'll then be able to use to fine-tune the map system for subsequent events and challenge leagues.

We're expecting to post full details of the one-month events tomorrow.

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Chris wrote:

Map Levels are now Tiers
There are 15 tiers of maps, from level 68 to 82 inclusive. We've struggled for ages with the confusion caused by this. Players expect to play maps of their level (which can be way too hard for them), or make arguments about that they're level 95+ and can't find a level 80 map. Players with backgrounds in contemporary MMORPGs expect to play content equivalent to their level.

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theloveduck wrote:

I see this getting, as somebody pointed out, a little too toxic. I've also heard the map system called boring, and repetitive, an assessment that I guess you could say is fair, but I don't agree with fully. And by not fully, I really don't agree with that.

Let's first give credit where it's due: The map system is a really innovative piece of endgame architecture. That was doubly true when it was first created.

The idea that mods on maps could be changed around with the same currency used to manipulate items was the nose in front of our face, but it was a simplistic slice of genius. The map system has done a lot of stuff right. If its weakness is repetition, that is its strength also. That it can be repeated as many times as it has with all these trillions of combinations of mods is staggering, when you think about it.

Still, it's time to acknowledge that if you're going to improve it, you need to first ensure that the improvements you make aren't castrating the strengths of the system. The primary strength of the map system is, in my opinion, its dynamism. The death of dynamism is homogenization.

You're supposed to get aberrations like etup from time to time. They're the exceptions that prove the rule. If it takes the best guy you've got two weeks to do something, nolifing all the way, that's pretty damn good.

The truth is, the map system is fine. It's just most likely not sufficient all by itself.

The problem isn't people are reaching 100. It's that for those people, 100 is the end. There's nothing to do following that point. Fix that problem, and suddenly it's not so bad that people reach 100 anymore.

We need a new endgame, and lorewise, you've already given us the perfect excuse to go anywhere. After killing Malachai in Merciless... you're at the helm of the Imagination Machine itself. You could go anywhere with that. You could have it spawn an endless dungeon. You could even wake it up and fuck up the previous three acts all to death, new enemies, random mods, whatever you wanted to do.

There's real problems with what you're proposing doing with the map system right now. All the same, it's not fair to the progress that's already been made or the people making it to come down so harshly. Hopefully, the larger community is addressing this in such a way that communicates the potential we see within the map system, and not just a bunch of vitriolic bullshit.

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leto2626 wrote:

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theloveduck wrote:

I see this getting, as somebody pointed out, a little too toxic. I've also heard the map system called boring, and repetitive, an assessment that I guess you could say is fair, but I don't agree with fully. And by not fully, I really don't agree with that.

Let's first give credit where it's due: The map system is a really innovative piece of endgame architecture. That was doubly true when it was first created.

The idea that mods on maps could be changed around with the same currency used to manipulate items was the nose in front of our face, but it was a simplistic slice of genius. The map system has done a lot of stuff right. If its weakness is repetition, that is its strength also. That it can be repeated as many times as it has with all these trillions of combinations of mods is staggering, when you think about it.

Still, it's time to acknowledge that if you're going to improve it, you need to first ensure that the improvements you make aren't castrating the strengths of the system. The primary strength of the map system is, in my opinion, its dynamism. The death of dynamism is homogenization.

You're supposed to get aberrations like etup from time to time. They're the exceptions that prove the rule. If it takes the best guy you've got two weeks to do something, nolifing all the way, that's pretty damn good.

The truth is, the map system is fine. It's just most likely not sufficient all by itself.

The problem isn't people are reaching 100. It's that for those people, 100 is the end. There's nothing to do following that point. Fix that problem, and suddenly it's not so bad that people reach 100 anymore.

We need a new endgame, and lorewise, you've already given us the perfect excuse to go anywhere. After killing Malachai in Merciless... you're at the helm of the Imagination Machine itself. You could go anywhere with that. You could have it spawn an endless dungeon. You could even wake it up and fuck up the previous three acts all to death, new enemies, random mods, whatever you wanted to do.

There's real problems with what you're proposing doing with the map system right now. All the same, it's not fair to the progress that's already been made or the people making it to come down so harshly. Hopefully, the larger community is addressing this in such a way that communicates the potential we see within the map system, and not just a bunch of vitriolic bullshit.

I've read through all 50 pages here and this is the most constructive post.
I especially agree with the possibilities there are besides maps. So many things are possible, yet all we have is a map pyramid system that works great but in all honesty the repetitiveness gets to us after those years. I'm still a fan of a 4th optional difficulty (see my post in sig), or other things like endless dungeons, craft your own maps or sequence of, just me (and who am I) can come up with so many possibilities, I'm pretty sure the GGG hive brain can come up with even better stuff that's is not that extremely time-consuming to program.
Just stop finding 'solutions' that aren't necessary or aren't even solutions but mere renaming things, no one will get better from this, nor the players nor the programmers. Add something new that gives us options, stop watching the 0,001% of players that will do highest end level maps anyways whatever GGG comes up with. Think about the players that want to have fun, not the ones that grind to 100 because they are robots.