Map Changes in 2.0.4

I have lost all of my faith in GGG.

All I hear from GGG is (we are nerfing this and that because of 1-5% streamers and no lifers getting max levels or they are using their no lifing time to farm something none stop).

GGG if you truly listen to your players then answer my questions, what about us normal players?

All you have done so far is nerfs to stop those 5% top players and ending up hurting the majority of the players, and those nerfs ruined our builds that we enjoyed playing and at the same time ruined more fun we used to have while playing. I still remember how exciting it used to be when we find Zana in a lvl 74-75 map, or how it was exciting to do our Zana dailies, but now, I don't even bother with Zana anymore (and I know I'm not alone here).

Also no matter how much nerfs you make, it will only hurt us at the same time streamers and nolifers will find ways around your nerfs that it will lead you to do more nerfs and the cycle will keep going on resulting with a nerfs that only hurt normal players.

Another question, how many times you nerfed something that 1-5% streamers and nolifers abused? that ended up hurting us?


There was a time when I really enjoyed playing POE, and I was happy to support the game, but now why I want to risk my time and play unrewarding game? and yes I said risk my time and I mean by that all the time I will spend making a new build and get attached to it to find out that it will be nerfed soon. and for example I have a lvl 73 witch playing the whispering ice build, as much as fun it is and as much as I'm enjoying it and I want to play it more, but how long it will be until someone from those 5% top players start to abuse the staff or the build and make GGG say OH LET'S GO AND NERF IT.

Now this map lvls to map tiers changes, to me it sound a poor excuse to try to stop people from complaining about many problems the game have.

Also do you guys at GGG really know what increase drop rate mean? seems last time you nerfed the drop rate and called it a buff so I'm not sure if I really can trust you on that one.

Now the game is not enjoyable at all, builds getting destroyed, stuff getting nerfed bad, it's hard to do stuff because of RNG and it's getting boring too (the only thing we can do is same lvl 68-73 maps because we are stuck with them, higher lvl maps seems only for top players and I mean lvl 77-80 maps)

GGG if you really listen to your players then answer my questions here.

One last thing GGG, to me it seems you don't know who really are your loyal players, all this time you make changes to make those 1-5% streamers and top players happy, but you are forgetting one thing, no matter what you do, the streamers (that you are so busy trying to keep them happy) will leave your game once they find another game that they can make more money off streaming that game, same goes to the nolifers when they find another game that require more nolifing. GGG with the nerfs and those bad changes you are only pushing your loyal players away (and new players who log one day and find themselves lost) and I know the fact that you have lost so many loyal players who had enough with all of this crap for that reason. BTW unlike streamers( and let's be honest here, most of the streamers won't bother with your game if they were not making money from streaming it) Loyal players will play your game and stay with it no matter how many new games shows up, but GGG is pushing those loyal players away.

I understand maps are a new feature in the game that are still adjusting, but instead of continuously making the game worse for new players with each patch how about improving it for new players to keep them interested. If you are updating existing features in the game why not address things that have a problem? Most of the game is spent in maps, this becomes very boring. Why not upgrade party features, unfinished guild features or trade issue?

Hasn't GGG been complaining that players aren't engaging with the hard content and instead grinding easier content? Why, then, would they further reduce the reward of the hard content (in this case, the XP of high-level maps)?

If you want to encourage players to engage with the harder maps/bosses AND you want to make leveling to 100 more challenging (which is NOT the same as making it take longer), do the following:

1) Give maps and map bosses an experience and loot bonus based on how infrequently they're cleared. (Also give some rough indicator of what this bonus is, perhaps something that shows up when you hover over a map.) The idea of Warbands congregating where people weren't going was a good one, even though there were other issues with the Warbands themselves. Players skip rippy bosses and annoying maps because the rewards simply aren't worth it; however, if the rewards were to scale dynamically such that less popular bosses and maps got gradually more valuable, eventually they'd reach the point where it'd be worth taking the chance on them.
2) Increase the XP penalty for going to a zone WAY below your level. If people are grinding Dried Lake to 100, that's fun for no one.
3) If you're going to insist on lowering the effective level for XP from high level maps, why not compensate by giving an XP bonus on crafted maps that have sufficiently nasty mods, e.g., +1% XP gained for every 5% more items beyond 75%?

Although I can see the reasoning behind those tier changes, I'd like to mention that it's potentially quite misleading when it comes to raised minions. For example, Desecrate shows "corpse level" which is good in the game's current state. But (besides regular act zone leveling) it's gonna make summoning in maps rather confusing I guess.

Long story short, I think it would be convenient if we could still clearly see area level after pressing Tab.

Regarding xp changes: I can totally understand you want to make lvl 100 a goal for the extra dedicated. I also know most people rely on map rotation in 6-man parties when they aim for lvl 100. But it's worth noting any change that affects this approach double affects anyone who wishes to do at least a tiny bit of endgame leveling on his own. With that said, I like diversity...

My only complaint is the change to tier system. Just leave it as level. It is going to be troublesome to convert tier back to level to find out which maps to run. Rest of the changes are welcome.

Regarding the map changes I have 2 suggestions, perhaps they have already been mentioned but I don't have the time to read past pages.

- Would it be possible to keep the "level" for pre-awakening maps? This way old players will have some maps that resembles what they were used to and also be able to distinguish them better from new maps. New players won't be affected this way.

- Would it be possible to change the maps with white symbols to another colour (for example green or blue). This way when talking about maps it will be possible to distinguish that when you say white map you mean a map with no mods, not a low tier map.

Regarding people above complaining about the game being balanced based on the top players, well this is a competitive game and if done otherwise, everyone would be able to do a top build without much effort. The top players wouldn't have much incentive and they would get bored soon. The rest of the players would also get bored after a while because they would feel there is no challenge since they have mastered the game. If we want a high quality game then it is reasonable that only the best players get to have the best characters/loot etc. I do not belong to the top players and sometimes I get frustrated too. However I think that balancing the game this way is the correct thing to do.

What the fuck did I just read? Recoloring maps and changing numbers? Who the fuck asked this?
Leveling to easy? Wow. ~400 players on standard in TWO years too fast?
Time to uninstall this shit.

Heh... so we can forget about changing decision about tiers. In last "Full Details of One-month Flashback Events" announcement there is a sentence: " Kill the Boss of a Tier 8 or higher Map while it has Onslaught".

Basically done & done.

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DonJangles wrote:

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AxxiusEQ wrote:

Wow, they really do balance the game around the top streamers!

Leveling to 100 was too fast? Really? For whom? How many Warbands and Tempest players got to 100? What percentage of the total PoE player base is that?

In other words, GGG says to the casual player, 'Forget about lv 100. You are not getting it, ever'.

With lv 100 completely out of reach, one of the incentives to spend more time on a character is gone. Casual players will be playing less PoE.

They balance content that the top streamers are the ones doing, yes. Casual players don't really need to focus on getting to level 100 because it is not required for any build. Going off of what I believe is GGG's stance on the matter, level 100 isn't something that a lot of players should be able to easily achieve.

Incentive to play the game more also has nothing to do with leveling to 100, but lets say they change it, let's say they go in the complete opposite direction and make it so casual players can achieve 100 in a reasonable amount of time. What new incentive is there once you get to level 100????? You lose incentive to play a character when you hit level cap in a game. If you want a game where level cap means nothing, play Diablo 3.

TL:DR Level 100 is something only a few should be able to get, so GGG will balance it around how fast those few people get there.

You lose incentive to play a character once you no longer can advance it, regardless of the level where it happens. If lv 100 was achievable for casual players, they would care to spend time to achieve it. More time in the game = good for GGG (more MTX sales).

Now that lv 100 is absolutely not achievable for casual players, they will lose incentive to play that much sooner.

Creating content (maps, achievements) that only a few players will ever see is a waste of development resources. Those few players are not paying enough to justify it (unless GGG is actually funded by Etup).

And telling people to go play another game is really fucking stupid. A game developer who likes his job will never tell players to go play another game.

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AxxiusEQ wrote:

Now that lv 100 is absolutely not achievable for casual players, they will lose incentive to play that much sooner.

Creating content (maps, achievements) that only a few players will ever see is a waste of development resources. Those few players are not paying enough to justify it (unless GGG is actually funded by Etup).

And telling people to go play another game is really fucking stupid. A game developer who likes his job will never tell players to go play another game.

Level 100 is meant to be a challenge for the few. Otherwise everyone could get to level 100 (making it not that much of a challenge) and then people would ask for GGG to raise the cap.

What you are saying is that people's main incentive should be to reach level 100 to feel they have completed the game. However if it was easy it wouldn't be much of a challenge, everyone who is not a complete casual player and is a bit dedicated would have an 100 level character. How could you distinguish the super dedicated players then?

Regarding the content, you don't need to reach level 100 to play the top tier maps. Reaching level 90 is essentially the cap for most players, anything else is just for people who play the game 24/7 or have support teams behind them giving them maps and loot.

Telling people to go play another game is not stupid, it is very reasonable. Otherwise you make a very bad game, meant to attract as many players as possible. You also make it pay2win as sure many would prefer to pay to get loot. Essentially this would turn the game into a casual game.

Casual games are meant to be played by a wide audience and the majority of the players can enjoy it fully without much effort/dedication. This is what most big companies do: They ruin their games as long as they can attract more players and get more money.

GGG has stated from the beginning that they wanted to make a game that appeals to a more hardcore/dedicated audience, even if this means that they would not get as much money if they did so. Indeed many new players turn away from poe when they realise the game is very challenging. However this is good for the playerbase the game is targeted to: hardcore/dedicated players who appreciate a game that is challenging and not necessarily balanced around their convenience.

This is what is all about "go play diablo 3". Diablo 3 is targeted to a more casual audience that want to have a fun experience without having too many obstacles or needing too much effort. Most people prefer this and Diablo 3 is also backed by blizzard who has marketed the game much more and better than GGG, thus it has way more players that poe. However the point of poe I think was not compete with Diablo 3, but to offer an experience to some players that wanted something else. Also diablo 3 tries to attract non arpg players by focusing on cinematics and story, attracting players who would normally play an action adventure game.

Anyway surely there may be changes needed regarding balance and I have also complained multiple times about such issuers!. However sometimes you may need to consider whether some changes, even though not so pleasant may be necessary to have a robust and balanced game.