[2.1] "Bill the Butcher" Bino Reaver by fiqst

Opinion on wiping everything after Born to Fight, grabbing Ambidexterity, and filling out every Frenzy node, and getting the Cold+Evasion Wheel for Resist make-up?

Basically this:

Lose:
+1 Fire (Gain +1 Cold, matters more on reflect over-all)
13% Crit (95.49% > 82.??%
2% Attack Speed
15% Multi



Gain:
2 Frenzy and 4 Duration (8% MORE Damage, and 6% Attack Speed to make up for the 2 lost. Almost 1:1 trade-off for the 13 Crit lost)
Also, currently, Duration matters in Party Play. Without Acuity's, and you don't have max Frenzy Charges up, hitting a Reflect mob hurts ALOT, and will likely kill you.
48% Evasion
8% Cold Resist
8% Lightning Resist


Main Hand/Off Hand Bino, depending on Ambidexterity preference. (Using Doryani's)

Would it be worth it?

Hi you kill normal atziri wit classic gear?

"

romanczech wrote:

Hi you kill normal atziri wit classic gear?

Yes, easily.

But i have run apex hundreds of times, i can do it with my eyes shut at this point. It just takes practise.

For reference, my other reave build, a 20k dps budget build, can run atziri with only 1-2 deaths.



@lilmrock4457

Sorry for the late reply.

I had a look at your tree, you also lose about 14% life, which is significant to me.

When it comes to frenzy vs. jewels, i prefer the versatility of jewels.

Frenzy gives better dps, for sure, but getting that extra +10 int or 10% lightning resist or 0.36% mana leech to complete your character is more useful in my eyes.

You also took 3× evasion nodes, which i think is wasteful. The main defence is dodge and the evasion stat is minor. The use of Vaal Grace for 10.44 seconds of max dodge is the most efficient form of mitigation you can get. Using 3 points for what amounts to 5-10% evasion is a waste.

The reason I didn't mention the "-14% life" in the negatives, is because I only have a 110 point tree. I just didn't specify where those 3 less points were re-routed too. My bad.

Yours is 113, which already picked up the three additional Scion Life nodes.
For me, I gain 1% life by trading off the Barbasirm wheel to the Scion wheel. Picking up Survivalist to make up the Resistances I require and also getting a couple points of Evasion as a bonus.
If need be, I can take off one of the Duration nodes for a Life node. This means I gain 6% life.
The 13% Crit is made back with Assassin's Mark, so it isn't a ton of change.

The main issue is having ZERO defense against Elemental Reflect with Reave when you don't have your Frenzy Charges up. This is a very bad thing if starting a new map in a party, or traveling from one location to the next.
Also, in maps with people using skills that cover the entire screen, on top of PoE having more frame lag and drops than ever, it's hard to keep up with what is going on, and what mob has reflect through 5 layers of effects.
With Acuity's that problem vanishes instantly, but not everyone has the currency for one of those :D.

With this information, would it still not be worth doing?

Edit: If I could find an additional 2 Fire Resistance somewhere, I could grab Sentinel, and save a Passive for another Life node.

"

lilmrock4457 wrote:

With this information, would it still not be worth doing?

Yes, i didn't notice the 110/113 point difference.

Certainly worth doing, and i thank you for taking the time to theorycraft.

The trees are so similar with the only difference being you drop some dps for better defence and more resistance. This is nothing but a good thing, and neither is better than the other.

If you haven't spent the regrets yet, please post a before and after of the transition.

"

lilmrock4457 wrote:

Opinion on wiping everything after Born to Fight, grabbing Ambidexterity, and filling out every Frenzy node, and getting the Cold+Evasion Wheel for Resist make-up?

Basically this:

Spoiler

https://poebuilder.com/character/AAAAAgQAuR0V7L2BmSvKkITZZU29Nkd-vqdbrwAGYnkV9g2N7g78xY19I_ajik2S_94k_edUUUcwfDpCS3jdqDBx1CONv33jLOGsZrk-2HZHBtvntMXC7AW1YqydqjY9bIy1SG1sKgvz6rGzFr_tQaZ_VUth4iaVjDa5fIwL7LBfP8EEeWipbnfjAdwUIORRUEfvDmNwYEER1VeXQzHawXTtBS218ngNwBpvO9i9NZJKfeOfh3btPzfUcFJeRZLz-uv-j_4K8kU67TXvgUHBiyFgwzNaGiyFTipM_6XLDPJVhQ==

Lose:
+1 Fire (Gain +1 Cold, matters more on reflect over-all)
13% Crit (95.49% > 82.??%
2% Attack Speed
15% Multi



Gain:
2 Frenzy and 4 Duration (8% MORE Damage, and 6% Attack Speed to make up for the 2 lost. Almost 1:1 trade-off for the 13 Crit lost)
Also, currently, Duration matters in Party Play. Without Acuity's, and you don't have max Frenzy Charges up, hitting a Reflect mob hurts ALOT, and will likely kill you.
48% Evasion
8% Cold Resist
8% Lightning Resist


Main Hand/Off Hand Bino, depending on Ambidexterity preference. (Using Doryani's)

Would it be worth it?

So, I took a look at it, I'm not convinced.

The biggest change i don't like is the loss in crit. It's really not made up by frenzy charges. The more consistent you crits, the more survivability you have, especially if you're using something like acuity. Even if you're not, mobs that don't get crit don't die and can thus kill you. This is the main reason why I stopped played dual doryani. Assassin's mark won't help you against bosses.

Also, getting resists from the tree is not good. If it's that much of a problem, get them on jewels, which can still get other mods as well.

Finally, ele reflect.

USE YOUR FLASKS!!

And this applies for everyone. If you feel that much hindered by it, change p2l to something else for parties.

LINK to the upcoming patch notes

"

Poison can now stack! Rather than dealing the damage of the highest hit (as Ignite does), poison can now have multiple stacks. This means that every hit counts, rather than just the occasional big hit. This also lets it scale much better towards end-game, and differentiates it from other damage-over-time effects.

Poison can now only be applied by Chaos and Physical damage. This is for both thematic reasons, and to have it act as a reward for builds that have less of a focus on auras and elemental supports for damage boosts.

What i think this means is a nerf to Bino as to how it relates to this build.

Ele damage is not counted towards the poison damage, so the combination of P2L+WED+Catalyst will be useless when it comes to regen.

The solution is to go pure physical damage with a Promise flask and Death's Hand as secondary. This will maximise poison and regen.


Speculation:

Poison will stack so its likely that the poison per hit will be reduced. Possibly similar to the leech changes.

This build kills within 2-3 hits in most situations, so if the poison effect is reduced per hit, we will get less regen per kill and rely on killing many mobs within a short time to get a decent regen effect.

When facing a low number of mobs or a boss will few adds, you may get a lesser regen.

Its about time for the Bino to be nerfed but I hope its not a catastrophic nerf like what happened to HoA prolif. I look forward to seeing what the new numbers will be.

Was considering this build, keep us updated on how the patch pans out. Maybe some before/after if possible. I already have much of the gear needed.

Ugghhh how do you get the int you need for binos?

Any advices about atziri farming ? (Build with bino acuity catalyst).