[2.2] Poor Mans Guide to Bows - 114K DPS and Atziri on a 5L

I tried Chain in place of Slow. Proj (shitty result), and Faster Attack (ever more shitty result) from this setup:


So I guess I need better Chain than lvl 2 w/o quality to make it work? Or there's something more? Atm paper weight arrows fly all over the place, mobs are fine, utter disaster.

p.s. I'm not sure if it's reason to be proud or ashamed but I've never put Chain in my setup for longer than few packs of mobs sice 1.0. I feel little dead inside now.

"

skuadak wrote:

I tried Chain in place of Slow. Proj (shitty result), and Faster Attack (ever more shitty result) from this setup:

So I guess I need better Chain than lvl 2 w/o quality to make it work? Or there's something more? Atm paper weight arrows fly all over the place, mobs are fine, utter disaster.

p.s. I'm not sure if it's reason to be proud or ashamed but I've never put Chain in my setup for longer than few packs of mobs sice 1.0. I feel little dead inside now.

tl;drs,personal_opinions,nothing_impotant_in_general

I have acc and crit chance nearly capped, so I'm gonna get my AoEishness from Projectile Weakness (yeah)

p.s I don't know when I developed this attitude against commonly accepted solutions, but seriously they piss me off.

with that setup - personally i'd roll something much different. to each their own i guess. but anyway especially with almost capped crit chance i would not be running inc crit strikes. and ever since the massive nerf from crit dmg i never run that as a gem anymore either. i would replace those two with phys to lightning and WED. i'd throw in added fire as well as either chain or pierce, depending on your flavour, instead of faster attacks and slower projectiles.

split arrow, PPAD, added fire, phys to lightning, WED, pierce/chain

depending on your physical damage, this will give you much more damage (tho possibly lower "dps") than what you currently have. but you also don't need to super fast spam attacks when you kill everything in one shot as well. this also helps in conserving mana too.

"

xMustard wrote:

"

skuadak wrote:

I tried Chain in place of Slow. Proj (shitty result), and Faster Attack (ever more shitty result) from this setup:

So I guess I need better Chain than lvl 2 w/o quality to make it work? Or there's something more? Atm paper weight arrows fly all over the place, mobs are fine, utter disaster.

p.s. I'm not sure if it's reason to be proud or ashamed but I've never put Chain in my setup for longer than few packs of mobs sice 1.0. I feel little dead inside now.

tl;drs,personal_opinions,nothing_impotant_in_general

I have acc and crit chance nearly capped, so I'm gonna get my AoEishness from Projectile Weakness (yeah)

p.s I don't know when I developed this attitude against commonly accepted solutions, but seriously they piss me off.

with that setup - personally i'd roll something much different. to each their own i guess. but anyway especially with almost capped crit chance i would not be running inc crit strikes. and ever since the massive nerf from crit dmg i never run that as a gem anymore either. i would replace those two with phys to lightning and WED. i'd throw in added fire as well as either chain or pierce, depending on your flavour, instead of faster attacks and slower projectiles.

split arrow, PPAD, added fire, phys to lightning, WED, pierce/chain

depending on your physical damage, this will give you much more damage (tho possibly lower "dps") than what you currently have. but you also don't need to super fast spam attacks when you kill everything in one shot as well. this also helps in conserving mana too.

I think it's opposite, it would bigger toolpit but bit overestimated (afaik, I used to run pretty much same setup in 1.3 with LG and without chain).
But anyway, you think physical setup is the reason of Chain not working (pretty much at all) ? That might be true, if I cut dps of my every shot in half that would not do much charm to attack with 75% of toolpit being ele damage (as that PtL+Wed one), but would cause serious issues to physical attacks, at least against enemies with some armor (so even tripled quantity of arrows wouldn't help. And, from what I saw, it was excatly like this I just "lost my teeth" basicaly). That's ofc another reason to dump Chain, not to go for false ele setup %D. As you said, for each their own :)

"

skuadak wrote:

I think it's opposite, it would bigger toolpit but bit overestimated (afaik, I used to run pretty much same setup in 1.3 with LG and without chain).
But anyway, you think physical setup is the reason of Chain not working (pretty much at all) ? That might be true, if I cut dps of my every shot in half that would not do much charm to attack with 75% of toolpit being ele damage (as that PtL+Wed one), but would cause serious issues to physical attacks, at least against enemies with some armor (so even tripled quantity of arrows wouldn't help. And, from what I saw, it was excatly like this I just "lost my teeth" basicaly). That's ofc another reason to dump Chain, not to go for false ele setup %D. As you said, for each their own :)

i have no idea what you just said.

anyway you'll gain a noticeable amount of dps by converting it to elemental dmg, since you'll gain two boosts essentially. you boost your physical dmg with physical dmg boosts, which are then converted to elemental, which are then boosted by elemental (WED and quality on gems etc).

on all of my archer setups, slower projectiles has been a massive decrease in DPS. faster attacks is a "dps" increase, but a damage decrease, and i don't need to spam attacks so faster attacks is null and void anyway, except on single target skills.

so you do what you want, and i'll continue doing what i want. either way, doesn't matter, but that just means talking about it or debating possible changes to your setup is redundant

I thought mine English isn't that bad, frankly speaking :S

To put it simple I wrote: "No, nope, not ele, not chain, never, no" but you probably understood/guessed this much by yourself.

Fkin language learning once you get too old is pain in the ass, seriously.

ITT I still don't excatly know why my tryout with Chain went this bad, but what's the difference if I'm not gonna use it anyway...

thanks for chat and sorry for my english skills

"

crux47 wrote:

Spoiler

How strong of a crit bow is needed for it to actually be an upgrade from Lioneye's?

Is a 250pdps/8crit bow better than a 300dps/5crit Lioneye's? Debating between picking up a 4/5 Link crit bow, or a 6L Lioneye's.

Have no damage issues as of yet with Lioneye's, but the attack speed sometimes makes sustaining mana hard. Although, it seems to be getting easier as I increase my damage, which increases my leech.

There is a bow comparison guide listed in the ranger build guide section. But 250DPS 8 not going to beat a 300DPS Lioneyes IMO. You're going to need a 275+ 8.5+ Bow to beat it. And remember you can get Lioneyes up to 350DPS So really you're looking for a 330+ 9+ Bow if you want to go crit.

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

Spoiler

"

crux47 wrote:

How strong of a crit bow is needed for it to actually be an upgrade from Lioneye's?

Is a 250pdps/8crit bow better than a 300dps/5crit Lioneye's? Debating between picking up a 4/5 Link crit bow, or a 6L Lioneye's.

Have no damage issues as of yet with Lioneye's, but the attack speed sometimes makes sustaining mana hard. Although, it seems to be getting easier as I increase my damage, which increases my leech.

If you're in doubt, get 6-link Daresso instead (or whatever chest you're using). 250/8 bow might be better than 300/5 Lioneye, but i wouldnt bother that upgrade, the real upgrade will be 300/8.5 bow.

If you have problems with mana, try "+2 mana per hit" jewels, you may also get Spirit Void or Primal Spirit nodes.

6L vs Bow is a tough decision, but I would probably pick 6L.

"

skuadak wrote:

Spoiler

I tried Chain in place of Slow. Proj (shitty result), and Faster Attack (ever more shitty result) from this setup:

So I guess I need better Chain than lvl 2 w/o quality to make it work? Or there's something more? Atm paper weight arrows fly all over the place, mobs are fine, utter disaster.

p.s. I'm not sure if it's reason to be proud or ashamed but I've never put Chain in my setup for longer than few packs of mobs sice 1.0. I feel little dead inside now.

tl;drs,personal_opinions,nothing_impotant_in_general

I have acc and crit chance nearly capped, so I'm gonna get my AoEishness from Projectile Weakness (yeah)

p.s I don't know when I developed this attitude against commonly accepted solutions, but seriously they piss me off.

You definitely need a levelled chain at level 1 it is 50% less damage, at level 20 it is only 31% Less damage.

Honestly I think your setup is all wrong.

For Split Arrow > Chain or Pierce > Physical Projectile attack Damage > Added fire or Phys to Lightning > Weapon Elemental Damage > Slower Proj or Increased Crit Damage

For Lightning Arrow > Chain or Pierce > GMP > Physical Projectile attack damage > Weapon Elemental Damage > Added Fire

I genuinely believe that will get you better results. Faster Attacks is a wasted Gem Socket IMO.

Well, appart of whole stuff with which I don't agree, idea of replacing FA with Pierce sounds really interesting. I just must lvl it up a bit more. Thanks for your help and sorry for slight mess I might cause.


Edit: I've been trying to say what MortalKombat3 just said (thanks man btw :S), I just couldn't because my English and, first of all, ability to brief explaining things aren't gg, to say the least.

"

AngryCustard wrote:

Honestly I think your setup is all wrong.

For Split Arrow > Chain or Pierce > Physical Projectile attack Damage > Added fire or Phys to Lightning > Weapon Elemental Damage > Slower Proj or Increased Crit Damage

I genuinely believe that will get you better results. Faster Attacks is a wasted Gem Socket IMO.

It isnt.

Tooltip may show higher DPS numbers with elemental gem setup (WED+PtL or WED+AFD), but do note, that enemies can have up to 75% elemental resistance, and elemental damage cant leech, so you need much higher life/mana leech to sustain yourself.
Physical setup is also viable, but you should look not just at bare DPS numbers, but actually understand the game and its mechanics. Then you'll understand, that "bigger" doesnt always mean "better".

And dont underestimate 20/20 Faster Attacks gem. Even if you got decent attack speed bonus, it will still be better DPS-wise than 20/20 ICS or ICD gems, and quite close to Slower Projectiles.

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

AngryCustard wrote:

Honestly I think your setup is all wrong.

For Split Arrow > Chain or Pierce > Physical Projectile attack Damage > Added fire or Phys to Lightning > Weapon Elemental Damage > Slower Proj or Increased Crit Damage

I genuinely believe that will get you better results. Faster Attacks is a wasted Gem Socket IMO.

It isnt.

Tooltip may show higher DPS numbers with elemental gem setup (WED+PtL or WED+AFD), but do note, that enemies can have up to 75% elemental resistance, and elemental damage cant leech, so you need much higher life/mana leech to sustain yourself.
Physical setup is also viable, but you should look not just at bare DPS numbers, but actually understand the game and its mechanics. Then you'll understand, that "bigger" doesnt always mean "better".

And dont underestimate 20/20 Faster Attacks gem. Even if you got decent attack speed bonus, it will still be better DPS-wise than 20/20 ICS or ICD gems, and quite close to Slower Projectiles.

I think it purely depends on your bow. If you are running a Lioneyes then you're already attack 5 times a second. You're not going to be able to sustain anything more than that mana wise. If you're using a slow crit bow then maybe.

I should post up a video using lioneyes you'll see even on 78+ maps there is no problem killing pacs in 1-2 hits with lioneyes let alone a high damage crit bow so I don't see the point running faster attacks.