The Celestial Justicar drop rate......Oops??

Well that is to be expected as the game evolve and more people play.

I remember in open beta, 5L were as hard to get than 6L.

With the increase in difficulty we have now having the ability to buy a 6L no perfect with some resistance under 4ex is god send

The irony is that tabula has never been so cheap and accessible also lol

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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Boem wrote:

Your arguments boil down to....

no my argument boils down to the fact that its way too common, which is it.

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All i get from your post is that you think 6-links should be extremely rare and a commodity?

Which seems like a terrible ideology to hold onto given the current end-game state.

yes they should be extremely rare, because its an item game and extremely powerful endgame items should be rare. If that isnt something you believe in then sry, I cant even have a conversation with you as your opinions are just too absurd to even credit with a discussion.

I guess ill give you the benefit of the doubt even if your being totally ignorant to my post and dismissive.

Why exactly should a 6-link be extremely rare, other then some personal feelings on the mater you have nothing to back that ideology up. Specifically not in the current game state.

Saying it's an "item game" is not an argument. Saying it's an extremely powerful endgame item, again, is not an argument.

1) it's an item game

So what? I mean honestly there is nothing sensible or logical in this statement, being an item-game doesn't relate to astral 6-links being more common.
If anything, the logical conclusion is "more people are playing, thus more 6-links are appearing"

Followed by the "people can now target farm a zone for a 6-link astral, combined with the increased people count astral 6-links will be more common"

Duh?

2) it's an extremely powerful endgame item

So a tabula is an "extremely powerful endgame item"? Because that's what this card provides a tabula rasa with some armor.

There is still a requirement to funnel currency into the armor to make it worthwhile or of reliable power.

You could sink in 5ex into such a piece and still have jack shit to show for it. Cause Rng be Rng.

The links don't make a powerful item, they allow variety in skills, a powerful item is for most achieved by the combined modifiers it apply's to a character.

Are the links important on such an item, of course they are, should they be the sole purpose of attaining power for a character, of course not. Having the skills power be dictated by links has and always has been a major flaw in the design GGG offers.

If they balance content around a 5-link, 6-link users trivialize it by the sheer multiplier a 6-link can offer. If they balance around 6-link utility 95% of the community gets the middle finger.

So you either increase the availability of 6-links and then balance around them, or you allow 6-link people to trivialize any and all content.

Guess which one holds better effects on PoE long therm?

you would rather lock away the gem system behind some "elite entitlement" of a PoE gone past, instead of focusing item power around it's modifiers only and not around it's links, which act's like a build stifling method currently.

Kudo's for you and your vision of PoE.

Proceed to calling me ignorant and a fool, but all i see is an elitist trying to hold on to a broken system from a PoE of the past. Which worked then, but won't work now.

Enjoy your discussion skills though, calling other people's opinion absurd and not worthy of a discussion, i don't think you understand what a discussion is for.

People must be sad if their pixels lose value eh, glad i don't give a fuck about pixel wealth.
My focus is around a good game and a fun community.

For sure people will have nothing to strive for item-wise because of readily available 6-link bases, goddamn, you make me laugh.

Peace,

-Boem-

Linking/socketing is possibly the most frustrating thing in this game. Cards such as this are a good thing, imo. So, people will be now able to get their hands on a white 6L in a less un-reasonable timeframe, so what? As Boem said, I'd rather have more accessible 6L and (late)game balanced around this, than 6L being an exclusive faceroll club for the selected few.

I leveled to 90 with a 5L. Got 1 Celestial Justicar card to drop in this time. Just as I was getting bored of the game and mapping, I see someone seling five of these in chat and I just bought them (what am I hoarding exalts for anyway?). Having a 6L opened a lot of new possibilities for my char (gem combos / tree setups) and made me tweak my char and play the game more.

I fully expect nerfs to the few cards that make sense and have a noticeable impact on the playerbase, tho. No fun allowed, unless you play this game as a double job -_-

Also, nurf this plox:

I managed to loot 3 in 150+ hours of mapping and huge orb investments into maps. Clearly overpowered.

I don't know if the card is necessarily too common, rather than the graveyard map is just being heavily farmed in temp leagues. Even though I'm past 72 maps I farm it a lot because I can clear it pretty quickly and it drops three desirable div cards (Celestial Justicar, The Lover, The Siren). This is the same reason that the brittle emperor sells for less than an exalt in tempest despite Voll's Devotion obviously being worth more than 8ex - dried lake is a popular farming zone anyway.

And it's not necessarily bad that 6-links are more accessible. As other have pointed out it isn't like this is an automatic T1 chest piece you are getting. It's obviously better than a tabula, but the cards are still going for 1ex a piece in tempest, and 6ex for a decent 6L chest (alt life, regal, master craft) doesn't seem overly cheap.

It's also probably worth noting that despite all my graveyard runs I have only found one celestial justicar card, so I'm not sure they are really all that common.

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ACGIFT wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

Virtually everything you have said I either disagree with or find laughably beside the point. Who are you exactly? You some sort of important player whos opinion matters?

As far as a player goes, I'm in exactly the same sort of tier of scrub as you. Neither of us have hit 100, nor have either of us gotten 8/8 in a challenge league... Neither of us is a famous streamer or anything.

so when I emailed chris and told how absurd master crafting phys crit weapons with all 3 phys rolls from the bench was, he ignored me because I wasnt important right? Its not like chris actually cares about the game he just cares what people with a lvl100 char or 8/8 think.

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ACGIFT wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

You have a crit bow char on standard, and you have a crit strikes gem in your tornado shot links on your multimod crit harbinger bow that you have crafted attack speed on instead of local crit chance...

What does my tertiary character have to do with anything, anyhow?

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

I get it, you want the op sauce and now some horrible person like me comes along and says what you already know deep down, that its fucking broken, and you just wish I would shut up and maybe GGG wont nerf it.

To be honest I could hardly care one way or the other: it's a card that I won't ever bother farming. (I actually found I dislike both zones it can be farmed in)

Similarly, when it comes to buying armor, I'll likely spring the little extra so I can get 2.2k armor; my armor-using builds work best off of stacking as much as possible, and 100 is WAY too much to give up without a thought.

ya ok, sure, so your character with a 1k armour hat, 500 armour gloves, 500 armour boots, 2k armour shield, 400 armour belt just absolutely wont settle for a 2100 armour chest for less than 10ex and will only wear a life, tri res, t1 % t1 flat armour 6 link that is mirror worthy and outclasses armours that are currently listed for a 2.5 mirror buyout. You know if you even had 1 piece of gear on 1 of your characters that came anywhere close to the sort of gear I just described maybe I wouldnt find that quite as funny as I do.

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Boem wrote:

1) it's an item game

So what? I mean honestly there is nothing sensible or logical in this statement

boem, you have played item games before. How common is a shavs? How common is a mjolner? How many fusing does it take to 6 link something at a bench? If they wanted everyone to have a 6 link for 4ex why doesnt the 6 link bench cost 4ex? How common is a goldrim right now? Game would be more fun if everyone could have a mjolner right? Why wouldnt a dev want everyone to have a mjolner?

Mate, youre a big lad, big enough that I dont need to explain to you that in every item game the powerful things are rare and rare for a good reason. Its such a fundamental part of an arpg games design that yes, its truly ridiculous having to discuss it. You want me to drag out a million quotes from chris, qarl and rory where they say that good items should be very rare? Its not going to happen, not gonna waste my time because you have seen those quotes and you know the principals of the situation. Right now a 6 link astral plate costs less than an unlinked lightning coil, unlinked lightning coil used to be worth 1 chaos orb, what happened there? Why are they now like 7 exalts? Because maybe, just maybe, the devs want powerful things to be rare.

Maybe they will bring the 6 link bench down to 4 exalts worth of fusing and completely change the linking system to make 6 linking take an average of 4 exalts worth of fusing so that the rest of the game makes sense with justicars current place in the game. Or maybe they will nerf justicar.

go get your free 6 link astral mate while you still can, it could go either way but I really dont need to tell you which way its more likely to go, you already know, you already know why, deep down the part of you that isnt drooling over the free candy agrees with it because youre a smart person.

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GREATER_BASH wrote:

I don't know if the card is necessarily too common, rather than the graveyard map is just being heavily farmed in temp leagues. Even though I'm past 72 maps I farm it a lot because I can clear it pretty quickly and it drops three desirable div cards (Celestial Justicar, The Lover, The Siren). This is the same reason that the brittle emperor sells for less than an exalt in tempest despite Voll's Devotion obviously being worth more than 8ex - dried lake is a popular farming zone anyway.

And it's not necessarily bad that 6-links are more accessible. As other have pointed out it isn't like this is an automatic T1 chest piece you are getting. It's obviously better than a tabula, but the cards are still going for 1ex a piece in tempest, and 6ex for a decent 6L chest (alt life, regal, master craft) doesn't seem overly cheap.

It's also probably worth noting that despite all my graveyard runs I have only found one celestial justicar card, so I'm not sure they are really all that common.

and how many 6 link ilvl80 astral plates have you found in your time playing this game? What sort of currency investment has it taken for you to fuse the 6 link astral plates you owned before?

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CaptainWARLORD wrote:

Isn't editing quotes prohibited? In this case it's harmless, but seriously, stop doing that. You tend to do that a lot.

No i don't. If i do it it is to serve a point or because it's harmless and i know the other poster.

I never however, alter a quote to pick holes into an argument or depict and argument differently then originally intended. Which is the prime reason why the "don't misquote" forum rule exist's.

Please provide some proof for your "you tend to do this a lot" statement, since it's quite frankly "bull".

@snorkle

Again you present no relevant arguments from my point of view.

Average cost is 4exalt now = irrelevant, prices fluctuate constantly based on demand.

At the start it was closer to 7exalts +-, after some time that price goes down, that's a natural occurring process with every available item in the market that reaches a threshold in availability.

Your statement about the coil is just made from your point of view but could easily be interpreted differently.

"Coils went up in rarity tier to reduce the end-game unique armors to force rare armors on end-game characters more often" As in "rares should be better in the end-game then unique's on average"

This 6-link recipe enforces that stance more then it enforces your position or viewpoint.
Yes a coil is more powerful, but when a 6-linked astral is more readily available it gains momentum or desirability over that coil.

Again, your not factoring in the league time period when assessing the current value, neither are you assessing the cost to actually craft it properly.

Are crafting benches even remotely related to this topic? No they are not, they allow any and all armors to be 6-linked with a guarantee result.

Unique bis chest = guaranteed result
rare bis chest = guaranteed result

A 6-link in itself is not BIS, get this in your thought pattern. A 6-link with top tier rolls is BIS. And there's a massive currency sink between the first one and the second one.

In most cases the mod crafting far exceeds the price to actually craft the 6-links on an item.

Your stuck in the past, not considering the game is evolving, good luck with that. Further more your ignoring certain economical facts to strengthen your position, when in fact any and all economical arguments around this subject are moot since there initial price range equals the common ratio for 6-link astrals.

Economics in this game exist to create competition and enforce the competitive scene on different layers, prices going down after that initial competition is already considered "done" by the relevant part of the community is irrelevant for GGG as a basis to balance.

All gear drops in value after time in a league, this astral plate following that same trend is irrelevant, it was to be predicted and expected.

Believe what you want to ease your thought pattern. But just be aware that GGG can manipulate any and all drop-rates whenever they desire in a league and have done so in the past.

Nothing seems to suggest they will be changing the availability of this card. Most likely they have the relevant numbers of people farming specifically for it vs total amount of players and astral's being introduced in the economy.

Peace,

-Boem-

I generally take issue with players having (potential) access to the absolute ceiling of their build's potential in both terms of itemization (BIS) and how this relates to monster/general balance, and feeds back to the player again. I believe it is one of the biggest design flaws in PoE, and many of the games problems (I suspect) can be attributed to this.

But that's another discussion, and besides, not even close to the case here. You get easier access to a white 6L item, which still needs to be rolled well to make relevant (else, you'd just continue to use a much cheaper Tabula Rasa). It does not grant access to build specific BIS 6L unique, etc. More like, it smooths out one of the most jarring progression spikes in the game--transitioning from a decent/great 5L to a 6L of any quality. That this spike was so massive often meant it wasn't worth it to progress through meh/decent 6L's, and just skip straight towards great/best--unlike the rest of the game where you'd typically progress through a handful of 4Ls and 5Ls each.

Long story short, there is still a lot of item progression to happen after a white 6L is acquired, so it doesn't touch upon granting access to a build's ceiling of potential. Meanwhile, it places a few stepping stones players can climb instead of simply waiting until they can make the leap.

Overall, I'd say this is a really good thing.

While I'm inclined to agree with Snorkle that these cards probably won't last as they currently are, the presence of corrupting tempests (and the large increase in 6Ls they lead to) supports the notion that GGG are currently reconsidering the position of the 6L chest in the game.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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GREATER_BASH wrote:

I don't know if the card is necessarily too common, rather than the graveyard map is just being heavily farmed in temp leagues. Even though I'm past 72 maps I farm it a lot because I can clear it pretty quickly and it drops three desirable div cards (Celestial Justicar, The Lover, The Siren). This is the same reason that the brittle emperor sells for less than an exalt in tempest despite Voll's Devotion obviously being worth more than 8ex - dried lake is a popular farming zone anyway.

And it's not necessarily bad that 6-links are more accessible. As other have pointed out it isn't like this is an automatic T1 chest piece you are getting. It's obviously better than a tabula, but the cards are still going for 1ex a piece in tempest, and 6ex for a decent 6L chest (alt life, regal, master craft) doesn't seem overly cheap.

It's also probably worth noting that despite all my graveyard runs I have only found one celestial justicar card, so I'm not sure they are really all that common.

and how many 6 link ilvl80 astral plates have you found in your time playing this game? What sort of currency investment has it taken for you to fuse the 6 link astral plates you owned before?

I have found exactly none. I'm not arguing that the cost of getting a 6L astral plate by spamming jewelers and fusings is at all comparable to the cost of getting one via the celestial justicar. The div card route is probably around half the cost, assuming the expected number of fusings to get a 6L is in the low 900s. Though actually the expected value is presumably much better if you are scrapping before each fuse, which is entirely reasonable for a white astral plate.

What I would argue is:
1.) The drop rate of the celestial justicar is probably reasonable. The reason the celestial justicar seems so common for what it gives is that graveyard is a commonly farmed map.
2.) Even though the above situation may drive down the price of 6L astral plates, the current cost via div cards (6ex) isn't so low that it is completely unreasonable.

Isn't this half the point of divination cards? Now a map that was previously considered mediocre at best is seeing a lot of action, and a 6L item is much more accessible to players with a lower budget. I would agree that a decent 6L should be expensive, but I don't see why they need to stay as expensive as they have been in the past. I would say that it doesn't matter what kind of currency investment it would have taken to get a 6L astral previously, as long as the current cost is reasonable.

As a bit of a side note, why complain only about the celestial justicar? 8ex voll's devotion seems way more insane to me. The Dark Mage card (6L staff) is also going for 1ex in tempest, is 6ex for a 6L staff way too cheap too? Not to mention the fact that many high end items have been devalued in general in this league (though not necessarily because of div cards). I guess you could say that it's dumb to have 6L astral and staves be cheap compared to 6L of other items, but I don't see a problem with high end items being easier to obtain in general.