I still think map drops are fine - boost drops and good players can do 79++ all day long

Content should be GATED by difficulty NOT RNG!!!!!

"

Crackmonster wrote:

Yea, keep those conspiracy theories rolling!

And the conspiracy theories are?

I just pointed out that you are basing your arguments based on small sample sizes but you just lucked out this time compared to those that were handed short end of the stick

It is also quite common lately that strong arguments are often made by those with private profiles. I dont care for what reason, it is just my observation. I normally want to check some basic info such as what leagues are these posters playing, what characters and builds are they using and stuff like that. I might actually learn something and improve my game.

Some of those information are quite crucial to make a stance on the argument presented here. Established characters with some accumulated wealth will have easier time to get to the top maps than new characters.

There is quite a consensus on forums and across many streams that currently mapping is rather expensive endeavor. You have to be on a fore-front of a league to be able to sell those drops early to fund your progress through maps. You have to trade in order to secure enough currency to roll maps and later buy those maps if you run out.

Now imagine how this looks like for your average run-of-a-mill player, lets not call him/her casual, who just cant spend 12 - 16 hours per day playing the game. These people will have a lot harder to time to trade their drops because they were not the first to reach maps. This means they will have a lot less currency to use for their gear, rolling or purchasing maps. I'm able to keep my currency flat in mid-tier maps but my chisels are dwindling faster than I can make them and I refuse to reroll (with chaos) maps more than once. I soon will have 2nd character that will be able to do those map mods that I currently cant so that will improve my currency consumption a bit.

Map drops are barely tolerable without excessive effort in mid-tier. High-tier maps are gated behind high currency costs and RNG that you need to brute force through it by dedicating huge amount of time to playing the game. This is not 3 or 4 hours a day, which is anyway a lot of time for a mature person, but 10+ hours a day. That is not fine.

GGG might see statistical data or make simulations with millions of repeats but that is useless for normal player. The game must be balanced around numbers attainable by single person. Currently the game is way too streaky and reliant on RNG, which is a result of balancing on large scales. This might be necessary for overall health of the game and its economy but than GGG must come up with mechanics that will compensate for the fact you might be "unlucky one".

My suggestions to improve single player experience without tinkering with drop rates:
1. Adjust Zana dailies to deterministically give map as a reward
2. Let Zana sell maps up until lvl75, make them cheaper but reduce the amount you can purchase to 1 for each level.
3. Further adjust or completely remove possibility of low level maps to drop. Maps should only drop in +-2 level range of current map.
4. Allow Beyond and Exiles to drop at least +1 maps.
5. Reduce cost of Zana mods and slightly tone them down to compensate for lowered costs.

"

Frankenberry wrote:

I agree with OP. Map drops are just fine.

I couldn't help myself, sorry :)

"

Frankenberry wrote:

I agree with OP. Map drops are just fine.

This.

"

Baron01 wrote:

How ironic to see OP bashing people for making conclusions about low map drop rates with small sample size while he is doing the same only this time he is suggesting map drops are fine.

I also get that warm fuzzy feeling in my stomach every time someone use argument that people do not know how to roll maps. This could have been valid 2 years ago but certainly it is not so hot these days. There is currently not many ways to roll maps anyways. People will be mostly limited by their currency than anything else.

Builds not able to do all mods are reality because not everybody is playing few cheese builds that can cope with anything. Than again, builds should not cap your ability to progress in maps as long as you have currency to re-roll those mods that your build can't manage.

What is also conveniently missing in OP is whether this opinion is based on solo or party play, permanent leagues or new leagues. Private profile to make sure these things can't be worked out and I guess to keep his super secret build from spreading out.

My thoughts on the topic of map drops:
Progress in maps was significantly slowed compared to 1.3 and it was also made much more expensive to get to even mid-tier maps (74 onward now, former 72). My biggest grip with current system is a fact that lower maps can drop from your current maps. This is place where GGG need to make changes to keep maps at least bit rewarding. Map drop rates can be kept as they are but you should never get maps outside of +/- 2 levels of your current map.

And also to put TLDR version at the end:

"

They are absolutely NOT okay.

Content should be GATED by difficulty NOT RNG, Watch everyone quote this post.

You know this guy nailed it by the look of OP's response.

What a terrible thread.

It's just funny how lucky people always brag about their skill but infact, they are just lucky.

They have already stated that the highest maps are intended for their most dedicated players - it seems to work to their intention.

Anyways, your suggestions do not seem to reflect the stances at which you initially come off with, as they are quite reasonable.

If you ask me they should do something along the lines of:

Zana dailies increased 1 level.
Zana maps sold increased 1 level.
Reduce Zana Rep required for her levels
Improve map drops from exiles and rares. I've never seen a map drop from an exile in 2.0.
Further increase drop rates in 74 maps and below. A good healthy boost to help people build map base.
Improve some higher-end map tilesets like springs and volcano. Some of them are just plain tiny, others have really bad monster density.

Maybe even more to help ease players into the map 74 range faster, akin to some of the things you suggested. I don't think the end balance is wrong, but until your map base is large enough, you are at the mercy of rng fluctuations, but it cannot be solved by greatly increasing drop rates across the board because then people like me will be rolling 80+ all day.

"

They are absolutely NOT okay.

Content should be GATED by difficulty NOT RNG, Watch everyone quote this post.

updated op with suggestions based on players feedback and thoughts in thread.

"

Crackmonster wrote:

They have already stated that the highest maps are intended for their most dedicated players - it seems to work to their intention.

Anyways, your suggestions do not seem to reflect the stances at which you initially come off with, as they are quite reasonable.

If you ask me they should do something along the lines of:

Zana dailies increased 1 level.
Zana maps sold increased 1 level.
Reduce Zana Rep required for her levels
Improve map drops from exiles and rares. I've never seen a map drop from an exile in 2.0.
Further increase drop rates in 74 maps and below. A good healthy boost to help people build map base.
Improve some higher-end map tilesets like springs and volcano. Some of them are just plain tiny, others have really bad monster density.

Maybe even more to help ease players into the map 74 range faster, akin to some of the things you suggested. I don't think the end balance is wrong, but until your map base is large enough, you are at the mercy of rng fluctuations, but it cannot be solved by greatly increasing drop rates across the board because then people like me will be rolling 80+ all day.

I think they will probably introduce small increases over time, and watch the effects. Chris has stated before it is easier to set an ambitious baseline, and make concessions to that, rather than be overly generous at the start. Though he didn't say that with maps in mind.

GGG have states that exiles no longer drop maps in 2.0.