[Outdated] Zivko's CI Chaos Incinerate build - 200k dps / 10 000 ES

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ogrec wrote:

I did some theorycrafting and number crunching, here are the results:
- build lost a bit of es
- tooltip dps should reach ~32k
- last stage dps should be ~80k
- poison dot should be 16k, but if poison is affected by chaos damage it should be 48k
Total dps: 96000 - 128000

Gear changes:
- 6L mantle is better then corrupted +1 gems 5L mantle now
- corrupted 6L +1 gems mantle is still the best chest you can get
- we cannot use spell echo anymore
- we cannot run incinerate on mana any more

Gem setup should be:
Incinerate + Reduced mana + Faster Casting + LMP + Controlled Destruction + Void Manipulation

Build also got cheaper because:
- no need for high level empower
- no need for high level enlighten
- no need to corrupt mantles, unless you're going for 6L +1 mantle

Here is what i believe is the optimal skill tree:

Spoiler

https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAwMA37DfioIQ6QIHpUuuAuMbJUmy2VssnG0ZEFgRUCL0h2U1uWwLr7enK5MnMjS-ii-df8ZTNR8CoS_K0xbzwcVQQjbFtAwmPOwYWFqMNot62CTqukZxj_pwuyy_UilUR3OzAW-FbTQKDXyDCfDV0NBcQNkTFddV4Ka-8Gvi99WBN2axkElRX2qHyy9vhq6exBXnhEgk2CymLainm1ZjXfKXl1xrkNa-gHWeKwpFfMNtIcPPFREvAx75ZetjH0G1SG1sD6sWvySLaozDOvVvieAZipu1KjjIFOZYlwaExaLZkx_EorDYSRM=

Note: I did try to create build that runs on mana and uses empower, but it takes so much effort and results in inability to do no regen/bm maps. Considering build needed 11 mana nodes and 3 extra aura nodes. It turned out it's better to use reduced mana instead of empower and just convert all those mana and aura nodes into damage.

That looks great on the vid. Glad to see that it's not dead yet and can still do Atziri.

Questions:

1. How do you survive without Life Leech? That looked almost too easy. You didn't even use Vaal Discipline. How did you leech that much ES so fast after eating Atziri's flame blast?

2. You are using Saffel's Frame now? And still have 9600 ES! I can't get that much even with a 441 ES shield.

3. Why take the Influence cluster? Mana reservation doesn't matter with just 2 auras and 0 cost. +20% aura effectiveness looks inferior to just grabbing the remaining 3 ES nodes on the Foresight wheel.

4. What are the defensive links? What did you replace the nerfed totem with?

5. Can you update your gear please?

6. I can't seem to drop mana cost to 0 even with 2 Elreon rings trying your links in a Tabula Rasa. That one 4% Reduced Mana Cost jewel matters that much? Or what am I missing?

7. What to drop for 5L? I still have a 5L Mantle. LMP/FP is a must have for this build. The new gems CD and VM are too good to pass (both are MORE damage). That leaves Reduced Mana and Faster Casting. I put Iron Will in instead of both of them and got the mana cost to 4 (with Elreon rings) for now. Dps loss isn't big (and still leveling the gem). I regen mana faster than that but can't do regen-impaired or BM maps. Any better idea?

8. You take +3% cast speed nodes over +10% spell damage. What's the damage:speed ratio where spell damage is worth taking over the cast speed?

9. Adjust Bandit rewards? Since the mana cost is zero now, you don't care about mana and should kill all on Normal. And if the cast speed is worth that much, help Alira on Cruel?

10. Is CWDT Molten Shell worth using? It gives a small amount of armor, breaks quickly and deals a small amount of fire damage. Why bother?

What if i am gonna use bloodrage+Hungry Abyss (Life leech+some dmg from frenzy)?
And yes, how u surv. without leech?

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Kelvynn wrote:

That looks great on the vid. Glad to see that it's not dead yet and can still do Atziri.

Questions:

1. How do you survive without Life Leech? That looked almost too easy. You didn't even use Vaal Discipline. How did you leech that much ES so fast after eating Atziri's flame blast?

2. You are using Saffel's Frame now? And still have 9600 ES! I can't get that much even with a 441 ES shield.

3. Why take the Influence cluster? Mana reservation doesn't matter with just 2 auras and 0 cost. +20% aura effectiveness looks inferior to just grabbing the remaining 3 ES nodes on the Foresight wheel.

4. What are the defensive links? What did you replace the nerfed totem with?

5. Can you update your gear please?

6. I can't seem to drop mana cost to 0 even with 2 Elreon rings trying your links in a Tabula Rasa. That one 4% Reduced Mana Cost jewel matters that much? Or what am I missing?

7. What to drop for 5L? I still have a 5L Mantle. LMP/FP is a must have for this build. The new gems CD and VM are too good to pass (both are MORE damage). That leaves Reduced Mana and Faster Casting. I put Iron Will in instead of both of them and got the mana cost to 4 (with Elreon rings) for now. Dps loss isn't big (and still leveling the gem). I regen mana faster than that but can't do regen-impaired or BM maps. Any better idea?

8. You take +3% cast speed nodes over +10% spell damage. What's the damage:speed ratio where spell damage is worth taking over the cast speed?

9. Adjust Bandit rewards? Since the mana cost is zero now, you don't care about mana and should kill all on Normal. And if the cast speed is worth that much, help Alira on Cruel?

10. Is CWDT Molten Shell worth using? It gives a small amount of armor, breaks quickly and deals a small amount of fire damage. Why bother?

1. I'm using Atziri's promise and have warlord's mark on cwdt, in total they give 2.8% life leech vs bosses and more versus rare, blue and white monsters.

2.It's mtx, i'm using the same shield listed in gear section of the guide with saffel's frame skin.

3. You are correct on this, i didn't give it much thought. It's better to drop influence for % es nodes.

4. Links for incinerate are at the end of the video and in the post you quoted, res of the links is almost exactly the same as in the guide, but i have to figure out what to use in 2 free sockets. I dropped flame totem for vaal discipline, but you can also use vaal righteous fire with inc aoe and life leech in consuming dark. That's what i recommend for mapping, it noticeably boosts clear speed.

5. Gear in the video is exactly the same as in the guide, i didn't change a thing. I'll update entire guide when i find time, i dont even have time to play talisman atm due to real life stuff.

6. 20% Reduced mana is in the red socket.

7. Drop faster casting and, if you can support the skill on mana, put in iron will since it has no mana multiplier. If you can't, use reduced mana in red socket.
I've done atziri run on a 5L to test if the build works with less links and i droped faster casting and was able to faceroll apex a bit slower then with a 6L, but just as easy.
5L - Incinerate + LMP + controlled destruction + void manipulation + reduced mana OR iron will

8. Iirc you need to get 12% node to get same damage boost as 3% cast speed. It could be more or less, i'm not entirely sure. It's a small difference in any case.

9. Absolutely. When i update the guide, i will recommend taking cast speed in cruel and taking a skill point in normal and merciless.

10. You can drop it, feel free to post your idea if you had something better in mind. Setup and skill tree i use is more of a guideline and i like people experimenting with their own ideas which sometimes result in a better setup or at least suit their playstyle more. I'm always open to new ideas and like changing the build by including suggestions that improve it.




availablex
Blood rage is really bad for this build as it results in ~4% degen, which this build just cannot support.
Using Hungry Abyss converts any type of leech to chaos leech, but maintains the same wording for the rest of the mod. That means that if you use Abyss, blood rage would leech '2% of chaos _ATTACK_ damage as life'. Since this build does not attack but casts a spell, leech would not be applied.
For now, hungry abyss is a really bad jewel for this build and i do not recommend using it. It's possible that this changes in the future as more items are added to the game, maybe some new item or mod will justify using abyss.

Whew, the Saffel graphic in the video totally threw me off! It would be very nice to get that resist bonus, but I can't imagine losing so much ES for it.

I did some mapping after adapting my char to your latest changes, and indeed, Life Leech doesn't seem to be a big loss. I guess it was never really required. Now you just can't facetank some bosses and have to move around more. Whirling Blades rule! And then there is Atziri's Promise too.

For 5L, Iron Will works fine instead of Faster Casting and Reduced Mana. For no-regen/BM I'm swapping IW for Reduced Mana to drop the cost to 0. Lower dps but still fine.

It's nice to have an issue such as 'what to do with all the empty sockets?' :) I find Molten Shell too insignificant, but can add more support to other defensives. Ideas:
1. Add Increased Duration to CWDT Warlord's Mark and Tempest Shield.
2. Link 2 or 3 Vaal Disciplines with Increased Duration.
3. Try CWDT Cold Snap.
4. Add Enhance to Warlord's Mark for more endurance charges.

VRF + LL + AoE? Sounds fun! I'll try it.

- poison dot should be 16k, but if poison is affected by chaos damage it should be 48k
Where's the poison coming from?

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Shibajusty wrote:

- poison dot should be 16k, but if poison is affected by chaos damage it should be 48k
Where's the poison coming from?

Chaos damage has a chance to poison the target, just like cold has a chance to chill and fire has a chance to ignite. I'm not sure about the exact math, and there were recent changes too. Maybe somebody else can explain.

"

Shibajusty wrote:

- poison dot should be 16k, but if poison is affected by chaos damage it should be 48k
Where's the poison coming from?

from dagger

Big thanks for keeping the build alive. Loss of leech changes the playstyle a bit, but with intelligent use of Atziri's promise midlevel maps have been smooth. Damage is actually somewhat increased from 2.0, even more when the +more damage support gems are leveled up.

I'm trying to figure an easy way to set up cast speed vs. increased damage. It will dependent on what talents, and heavily on gear, but for me 3% cast speed is just over 11% increased damage. So following the tree's choices is the right idea. If you have a ton of cast speed on gear and little increased damage, it might not be.

With -15 mana from Elreon rings, I cast at .11 secs and need clarity up to support the 4 mana/cast with iron will. I definitely need reduced mana on -40% regen maps, likely -20% as well.

I don't want to completely lose flame totem, but I'm leaning to having it with no linked support gems at all. I rarely use it for real damage, just sometimes to chip away at bosses I can't take close range with. Bypassing energy shield is very handy there.

I definitely have gem slots I need to fill, maybe a second CWDT setup. I currently have lightning warp-faster casting-reduced duration, and never, ever cast it. I do use whirling blades and supports all the time, fortitude never hurts.

Again, thanks. Using the hybrid incinerate totem passive tree in the other thread on talisman (very slowly, but finals just ended so that could change). I look forward to a full guide on that.

I currently use Wither + increased duration + faster casting + spelltotem in a 4L on talisman.

It's a really good setup for bosses, totems manages to get 10+ stacks on bosses which effectively adds 70%+ increased chaos damage which affects both incinerate and poison damage. It also serves as a distraction, which was what i used flame totem for in the past so i dropped flame totem completely.

If you dont feel build is defensive enough, just remove faster casting and add life leech instead in a 6L. I still get 120k damage vs bosses (60k incinerate, 60k dot from poison). With FC in a 6L damage is ~160k (80k incinerate, 80k dot). Not counting Wither damage that is.