[Outdated] Zivko's CI Chaos Incinerate build - 200k dps / 10 000 ES

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Lordofthedreadz wrote:

Most of the monsters have low chaos resists, you bypass energy shield making your dps amazing again any ES monster / boss and you don't need any mechanic to mitigate reflect.

Maybe fire penetration gives you better dps but you also need an extra socket to put the gem, it might be the same as adding an extra gem to the current setup like slower or faster projectiles.

The dagger with decent rolls gives you 55-60% spell dmg, know many wands that can double that?

Amazing vs ES monsters? You serious? :D
Reflect is a joke now as I said before.

I don't know where did you got info about mobs resistance, but if you pick a mediocre wand and put a Fire Pen. gem - you'd feel the difference.
Pretty much all mobs have at least 15-20% chaos resistance on Merciless, even without "Resist Chaos" mod. 80% of unique bosses have Chaos Resist mod(Vaal, Piety, Caliga, Dominus, Kaom, Malachai, Atziri and a lot more on maps!), same with rares.

Spell damage is not the prior thing now. Pick any 40-60 spell dmg wand with "Adds 30 Fire damage to spells" for example and check your tooltip ;)

And yet again, with full chaos dmg it's not effective dps, just because you can't penetrate the resistance.

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christophenuss wrote:

Also, if the conversion to chaos was not worth it, The COnsuming Dark, wouldn't be worth 6EX in standard.

The only reason is because no one plays on Standart now. It costs 1ex on Tempest.

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Osugosu wrote:

Pretty much all mobs have at least 15-20% chaos resistance on Merciless, even without "Resist Chaos" mod.

This is untrue.
Most monsters have 0 chaos resistance. Same goes for blue and rare packs unless they have 'resist chaos' mod.
Most bosses have 15% chaos resistance.

Chaos resistance is negligible and it does not hinder clear speed compared to fire incinerate, as long as you compare chaos and fire incinerate under same conditions (same skill tree, same number of links and same gear aside for weapon and chest).

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Osugosu wrote:

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Lordofthedreadz wrote:

Most of the monsters have low chaos resists, you bypass energy shield making your dps amazing again any ES monster / boss and you don't need any mechanic to mitigate reflect.

Maybe fire penetration gives you better dps but you also need an extra socket to put the gem, it might be the same as adding an extra gem to the current setup like slower or faster projectiles.

The dagger with decent rolls gives you 55-60% spell dmg, know many wands that can double that?

Amazing vs ES monsters? You serious? :D
Reflect is a joke now as I said before.

I don't know where did you got info about mobs resistance, but if you pick a mediocre wand and put a Fire Pen. gem - you'd feel the difference.
Pretty much all mobs have at least 15-20% chaos resistance on Merciless, even without "Resist Chaos" mod. 80% of unique bosses have Chaos Resist mod(Vaal, Piety, Caliga, Dominus, Kaom, Malachai, Atziri and a lot more on maps!), same with rares.

Spell damage is not the prior thing now. Pick any 40-60 spell dmg wand with "Adds 30 Fire damage to spells" for example and check your tooltip ;)

And yet again, with full chaos dmg it's not effective dps, just because you can't penetrate the resistance.

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christophenuss wrote:

Also, if the conversion to chaos was not worth it, The COnsuming Dark, wouldn't be worth 6EX in standard.

The only reason is because no one plays on Standart now. It costs 1ex on Tempest.

Doryani's Catalyst is also worth 1ex that does not make it a less good weapon. Most good uniques weapons are worth 1ex to 3ex in temp leagues... I really fail to see your point here. 1ex in standard is about 40 chaos while it is 60+ in temp leagues if you are lucky enough to find someone willing to sell his exalted orbs.

Also I'm pretty serious about ES, some bosses have several 100k of ES which recharge if you stop DPSing them while with chaos dmg you go through (a good example is the boss of the unique stand map which teleports around fleeing from combat).

This build is fine as it is and I'm actually melting my way through about everything up to lvl 78 maps with no sweat with every possible mod playable except blood magic. Made an incinerate life build a while ago and it did not felt as powerful.

Of course if you have data to prove us we are wrong about it (with actual real numbers about monster resists) I will be ahppy to swap to fire penetration (will still need a 6L for the same setup tho)....

Lordofthedreadz, sorry I don't have any 100% true info about monsters resistance. Only unofficial poedb.tw contains some numbers, but I'm really doubt about it. I picked some random humanoids which has 20% chaos res, same with unique boss Kaom, and he has "Resist Chaos" mod...

I know how bad it is because I wanted to make a crit flameblast with Voidbringers and this dagger, was in the beginning of Awakening Expansion where a reflect was a threat(Thornflesh); so when I changed my wand to this dagger I was really disappointed. Even tho I had more tooltip with that dagger(without crits), things went really slow even with Added Chaos gem instead of Fire Pen.

I can't really compare as I did not play with another wand but the clear speed is amazing, note that this also takes advantage of the infernal mantle making the damage converted to 100% chaos, not only 75 lke the dagger.

Plus the infernal mantle gives +1 to fire gems.

My tooltip is only 13600 and I melt everything in seconds, even the rare packs in sacrifice do not have time to come near me....

Once you have empower lvl 3 and a corrupted mantle you can achieve very decent dps (85k like Zivko did, there is even a video out there about a 160k dps shadow using this build) even if that is resisted at 20% in the worst cases (Kaom with chaos resist mod) you still do a decent amount of damage.

The only thing I personally dislike about incinerate is it does not crit.

If chaos damage was resisted to such high levels as you describe these items would be useless (and would not have been made by the devs to begin with), also you can't compare added chaos damage which adds flat chaos damage to your attacks to fire penetration which reduces or negates resistances.

Note also that this build has NO damage aura.

Hey, thanks for sharing the build. The concept of a chaos immune, 100% chaos damage incinerator is quite appealing I must say.

Being completely inexperienced with CI builds, I have one question however: how do you deal with physical damage in high level maps?
I'm used to stacking block and armor (around 10-15k pre-granite) on my life-based incinerate characters in 2.0 and while it does reduce physical damage to an extent, I still notice scary bursts of high physical damage from time to time when hits slip past the block. This is with a CWDT enfeeble on top. I can't imagine how worse it would be with close to no armor and only the base block of an ES shield with Tempest Shield. Do you simply melt everything from a safe distance and outleech damage when you do get hit?

(Sorry if this has been covered before, I'm still in the process of reading the thread.)

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Osugosu wrote:

Lordofthedreadz, sorry I don't have any 100% true info about monsters resistance. Only unofficial poedb.tw contains some numbers, but I'm really doubt about it. I picked some random humanoids which has 20% chaos res, same with unique boss Kaom, and he has "Resist Chaos" mod...

I know how bad it is because I wanted to make a crit flameblast with Voidbringers and this dagger, was in the beginning of Awakening Expansion where a reflect was a threat(Thornflesh); so when I changed my wand to this dagger I was really disappointed. Even tho I had more tooltip with that dagger(without crits), things went really slow even with Added Chaos gem instead of Fire Pen.

You used Flameblast and then extrapolated your experience into Incinerate, which has so many different mechanics? Not not even close. For one thing, making a Flameblast crit build with Consuming Dark is the dumbest idea ever. With the dagger alone, you convert 75% of fire damage to chaos, therefore your ignites are weak as shit because the ignites are only as big as the crit from the actual fire damage you do...chaos crits do not count towards the ignite. A flameblast build without an ignite mechanic through crits or other means is just not good. As it is, a full Flameblast build clears slow as hell. It is a garbage tier skill now. You also mentioned that you used Added Chaos for Flameblast. Added Chaos is TERRIBLE for Flameblast. Your argument is flawed when you jump from your experience with Flameblast to what you think would happen with incinerate.

I have experience with multiple Incinerate builds this league (and past leagues, including one to 98 in Bloodlines). This league alone I have/had an 89 (RF incinerate), 94 (MoM/block/EB/GR), and a 94 (this build). This build's average clear on the worthwhile maps is faster than the others by far. Do you realize that you often have to do maps with 60-80% fire res from the map mod and then you add in implicit fire res (mobs that always have fire res because of their type) the very common added fire res on blues and rares and the somewhat common all elemental resistances. There are some rares that you are literally right clicking for 20+ seconds until they are dead. Even the specific chaos resistant rare never take long to die with this build.

You can carry around Flammability for particularly hard fire resistant mobs but curse immune is also a very common mod on rares and maps. Also, you are in Tempest. A defensive curse setup is preferable, especially since you chose to goto every single major node for damage all over the map (the elemental triangle in templar, witch top fire nodes, shadow fire nodes and proj nodes) over being a bit more defensive and you choose and offensive curse and zero defensive. But maybe you are someone who won't do the crazy maps I do and will stop your char here.

Normal reflect is not an issue for a fire build but MAP MOD reflect IS. My RF incinerator with 89% fire resist and 20% quality Life Leech gem has to have a ruby flask up when he kills packs larger than about 8 mobs. Even with the leech, he couldn't keep up with the reflect damage normally. On that char, I didn't do map mod reflect 80+ maps where the reflect % gets even LARGER. And btw, the RF incinerator had way more dps than 100% CI one (it's RF), and he was using a wand with 114% total fire dmg, 28-49 fire dmg to spells, and 10% cast speed (you can see it in my Standard stash - you know it's this league since the fire damage to spells just came out). Amazing Incinerate wand.

Edit: I dont' mean to be harsh but I look at things in a critical eye from my long experience with PoE and my engineering background. If you want, I'll help especially since you are in Tempest and I a soft place in my hard for HC players in PoE. You also have to look at the differences. I look at your build and you use a RotP. Well with Zivko's build, you can use any ES shield, including ones with spell damage. The shield he has in his profile make up the difference in spell damage from the dagger and all but the most ridiculous wands. You don't get cast speed or added damage to spells on consuming dark but I closed the gap in tooltip dps just looking at those items. An ES shield can have the es needed (350++), 55++ spell damage, plus with a suffix free you can craft 8% cast speed. The gap is even closer. Now there is hardly any difference.

Haderach99, it wasn't full flameblasts, it was 1-3 stage run'n'click crits with 6 power charges, incr dmg, inc aoe gems + all aoe nodes from witch and templar side; basically one shot everything with a good clearspeed. I tried the dagger BEFORE I got crits, and yea it was terrible. Added Chaos was just one of the gems that I tried to replace Fire Pen.

As for my current build: I changed my passive tree from flameblast to pure fire incinerate. With 6L I have 20k tooltip dps LMP, 28k with Slower Projectiles instead of lmp, without any Atziri's flasks/Vaal Haste etc. 80lvl maps are just melting even with fire res mod.
My auras are: Arctic Armour, Discipline and Herald of Thunder.
Before I got a crit setup for my flameblast, I played with Conc. Effect. Thornflesh was a threat so that's why I'm using RotP. It also helps on 80+ maps with Extra Fire dmg nods, that's why I prefer this shield instead of ES.
And I need Ruby Flask for an end game maps reflect + some bosses like Megaera(she hits f%cking hard even without mods) when I need Ruby even with a Phoenix shield.
I have 5.1k hp and 3.3k ES, so what's the crazy maps you talking about that I can't handle with my damage nods?

Zivko's build is not for me just because of inc. spell damage taken on low mana from Infernal Mantle. I have 2 elreon -8 rings and -8 amulet, with a 6L my Ininerate still eating 8 mana. Imo, this Mantle is not for hardcore if you have such manacost.

Hello, thanks for this amazing build :)

I'm having a huge blast in tempest atm,

I chose to go Wanderlust & Chayula after a couple of heart attack on freez/stun :')

My dps tooltip is a bit low tho as i went for all the defensive nodes (10k tooltip with regular infernal mantle & lvl 19 incinerate) but nevertheless the clear speed is really good.

I was playing a lightning arrow ranger previously, and in higher meeps i didn't do shit to mobs they all had elemental resistances & sometime double resistance (map & mods)... Also i dont like to rely on curse to pierce and prefer the enfeeble option so this build is perfect for me. <3

I'm curious tho,

Wouldn't a 6L be better than a 5L +1 gems mantle ? What would i attach then ? Faster casting i'd say, lmk your thoughts.

this build seems awesome to replace my old pewpew's incenerate build.
problem is i use a scion what points should i skip and which way should i go as the scion?

-Rott