[2.0] Mjolner life based Rainbownuke witch, !!Deathless 82 Core/Uber!!
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Isn't Discharge-Ball Lightning-Arc better than Discharge-Ball Lightning-Iron Will/Light. Pen ?
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^^ my guess would be no since discharge is such a huge percentage of damage pERhaps if your auto cursing with ele weakness discharge arc arc would be best for trash clearing but versus anything with large lightning res you would want a more multiplier on discharge.
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would discharge + shock nova + conc effect be any good for bosses? or do you need the ball lightning charge generation?
to me it seems light pen still wins out considering most bosses have capped res |
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This post is a rough idea of math i've done 2 posts below, tl;dr Lpen sucks.
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" BAD MATH TIME (if you may, please prove me wrong) Poe database stated uber atziri resist to be 30, and even if it was fully capped, the penetration works only for the lightning damage which is around 60% of total damage, leaving 40% damage unbuffed. Lets say that you get the 60% light damage buffed for ~37% more damage in the case of iron will/lpen it would be: IW/LPEN: 60*1.37=82% lightning damage + 40% fire = 122%, or 22% more multiplier - LPEN While if you use conc effect CONC EFFECT: Buffing discharge (~80% damage) for 60% more: 80*1.6=96% discharge damage + 20% ball lightning = 136%, or 36% more multiplier - CONC EFFECT This perhaps BAD (please prove me wrong and get me away from insanity) math does not even take in account if you use frenzy charges/ blood rage, which would even more make conc effect a better support gem then lpen or iron will. When you put this into perspective, Lpen is 37% multiplier only for lightning damage, so if our fire damage is more than 5% it was ALWAYS better to use conc effect, but was just ignored because of its reduce of AoE. " Killing myself for not thinking about that, seems likely, If Arc will do more damage than 65% of discharge damage, it would actually be better than even the mathematicly best (conc effect) damage gem. That combination would approx (no math here) do ~15-20% less damage than discharge-arc-lpen but would give the insane flask charges needed for survivablity! Last edited by husker3011#3122 on Nov 24, 2015, 8:03:33 PM
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delete this one pls
Last edited by husker3011#3122 on Nov 24, 2015, 7:17:37 PM
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THE GREAT WALL OF MATH, FIXING THE ORIGINAL SHAME OF IRON WILL CALCULATION
So lets try math! I will assume mjolner gets 3 power and 3 endurance charges, as is (from my experience) the avarage. The avarage damages for lvl21 spells are: Lightning discharge per charge 338 x 3 avg charges = 1014 Fire discharge per charge 300 x 3 avg charges = 900 Arc --------------------------------------------------- 426 Ball lightning --------------------------------------- 124
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So if we have around 100% increased spell damage we multiply all skills with 2, therefore: discharge-ball-conc => ((1014+900 * 2 tree spell damage) * 1.6) + (124 * 2 tree spell damage) = 6372 per proc discharge-ball-arc => (1014+900+426+124) * 2 tree spell damage = 4928 per proc discharge-arc-conc => ((1014+900)*2*1.6 more) + 426*2 = 6976.8 per proc discharge-arc-IW => ((1014+900+426)*(1+2.3)) = 7722 per proc If we wanna check the damage of lpen, we reduce all above damage by 30% (uber resist) and increase the damage of arc+discharge for 1.07 (37% pen -30% atziri res) so, comparison of the links above:
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discharge-arc-conc =>
(((1014+900)*2*1.6 more) + 426*2)*0.7 = 4883.76 discharge-arc-lpen => ((1014+426)*2*1.07) + 900*2*0.7 = 4341.6 discharge-arc-IW => ((1014+900+426)*(1+2.3)) * 0.7 = 5405.4 discharge-ball-IW=> (1014+900+124)*(1+2.3) * 0.7 = 4707.78 Iron will gives 400/5 = 80% increased from strenght and 40% increased from gem and 10% from quality, 130% in total added with 100% from tree, equal to 230%, written as 2.3 above. WHOEVER WAS DOING THE ORIGINAL CALCULATIONS IS PROBABLY WRONG, HE EXPECTED 30% OF DAMAGE TO BE FIRE, BUT IN REALITY ITS CLOSER T0 40% SO LPEN IS A LOT WEAKER, ALSO HE FAILED TO CALCULATE IW BONUS BY A LOT ASSUMING IT WOULD ONLY INCREASE DAMAGE BY 30% FINAL IW VS LPEN EQUATION:
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((1014+900+426)*(1+2.2))*X = (1014+426)*2*(X+0.37)+900*2*X
X = 0.3795, MOB/BOSS RESIST = 1-X = 0.6205 = 62% BY MY LAST CALCULATIONS LPEN IS ONLY BETTER AGAINST IW IF BOSS RESISTANCE IS OVER 62.05%, IF YOU CURSE IT WITH ELE WEAK, MAKING IT 44% LESS RESIST, THE BOSS WOULD HAVE TO HAVE 106% RESIST UNCURSED FOR YOU TO HAVE EQUAL DAMAGE WITH IW AND LPEN. IN UBER ATZIRI THERE IS NO BOSS THAT WOULD CURSED OR UNCURSED TAKE MORE DAMAGE FROM LPEN THAN IW Last edited by husker3011#3122 on Nov 24, 2015, 9:23:40 PM
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I dont really understand the calculations as long as you have your more multipliers and increased multipliers (eg iron will is increased and much weaker as a % modifier and conc effect is more and much stronger but i dont know how to calculate) sorted im guessing your prob right, on the sgw mjolner build theres a bunch of calculations and his statement was if you curse with ele weakness before hand iron will comes out on top.
Last edited by Fhark#5469 on Nov 24, 2015, 8:20:04 PM
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" I was doing math against 30% resist, which is what uber atziri is listed to be on poe.db. If it IS capped, and somebody says that, I will re-do my math. edit: I added a equation that shows that the boss would have to have more than 62.05% resist for it to take more damage from LPEN than iron will, which would mean that after cursing with 44% mob/boss would have to have more than 106% elemental resist for it to take more damage from Lpen than iron will. Since uber bosses have 30% resist none of them cursed or uncursed would take more damage from Lpen. https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/3u5x4b/mjolner_iron_will_vs_lpen_vs_conc_effect_math/ Last edited by husker3011#3122 on Nov 24, 2015, 9:52:48 PM
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" But you didn't take into consideration that Arc 20q has 20% to shock (50% inc damage from all sources). And with high attack speed (5-6 attacks per sec) you 100% shock a target. Ok Atziri can't be shocked but for other bosses it is a good thing. I have another questions - why is Molten strike is that much better for a single target than Lightning Strike? Even with 9 projectiles (from GMP and LMP) Lightning Strike is much worse than Molten Strike vs. Single Target. I wonder why is that? Last edited by Garfunkel#1567 on Nov 25, 2015, 7:47:51 AM
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" GGG removed the possibility of shotgunning mobs. |
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