[outdated] Caustic Arrow Solo Map MFer (20/300+)

@Serleth
Yup - I caught the non-capping of pierce in the tool just now while trying to figure out how that portion of the tool works.
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In the nice calculation you provide above, it appears that you've added the "more" damage modifiers and then and then applied the result.

My understanding is that it's the product of all more multipliers that's used, not the sum; indeed, if it were the sum, than "more" would suffer diminishing returns just like "increased" which, as we all know, isn't the case.
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Based on the numbers you provide in your calculation above, Serleth, the cumulative multiplier for Pierce should be:

1.6*1.4*1.4*1.3*1.28 = 5.22

For Empower it's the same but get rid of Pierce's 1.3 for 4.02
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Pierce Damage is then:
861.1 * 6.39 * 5.22 = 28,700

Empower 3 Damage is then:
1198 * 6.39 * 4.02 = 30,774

The above numbers also seem to closely match the damage calculator; good news, it seems that the damage calculator is probably correct insofar as it matches the DPS numbers I compute by hand above.

This is not to say it's error-free in all cases... but it seems to have covered the basics correctly.
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I found where I made an error in my Pierce versus Empower 3 comparison - it's not in the formula I was using - instead, it's in not applying +1 to gems to Empower - basically I was using 1073.7 instead of 1198 for the base CA damage; the numbers I used in my formula were basically comparing Pierce to Level 2 Empower in a +1/+2 bow.
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Thanks for helping me clear this up Serleth and gutsquasher.

The take-home from this would seem to be, don't worry about getting a red socket in your 6-link +1/+2 bow until you have Empower 3+; Pierce will outperform Empower 2-, will be easier to color for, and will use less mana.
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Uh, the other take home is that I can't reliably look up damage values in a table! I suck!!! LOL.

Daum, Serleth! If I'd was a director of Best-Forum-Members Museum, I would buy you for exposition for $1M, no less :-D
Great job at enlightening us noobs and filling this thread with welcoming atmosphere!

I am aware the math is important to know when looking at and evaluating support gem options, but my eyes still glaze over a bit in these discussions. I'll get it eventually.

@KaseyM21

One can level as CA, and that is usually what I do, with the support of ED and contagion. It is a little slow, but I also level with friends at the start of a new league. Having the group does help it go faster. I have a spoiler back on page 385 showing the Gems for the CA set up and where to get them as a scion, or early enough to mule. This is only important if leveling as CA, if leveling as something else I'd stick with Serleth's elemental suggestions.



My standard league preparations were mostly completed. I am down to only haveing two remove-only tabs in Standard (well essentially two, sill have my race rewards, and my fishing tabs), and they are rare UNID maps, or Zana prefix maps I just did not get around to running. Bring on the new coins and the purple.

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ChronoExile wrote:

I am aware the math is important to know when looking at and evaluating support gem options, but my eyes still glaze over a bit in these discussions. I'll get it eventually.

Have a few beers... or maybe a lot of beers.

The math seems much better afterwards :-)
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In all seriousness, sorry for cluttering the forums with incorrect information. In hindsight, I should have tested this on one of my CA characters in Standard and figured out on my own why I was at odds with the CA DPS calculator and tooltip DPS.

I was aware that the CA DPS calulator was at odds with my own calculated DPS even though it seemed to confirm that Pierce was better than Empower 3.

If I were more careful, I'd have tracked down the discrepancy between my own DPS calculations and that of the DPS calculator. I would have discovered that the calculator doesn't cap pierce chance prior to posting (I did discover this on my later on - but not before posting). And from there, I'd have discovered that I wasn't applying the +1 to gem levels to Empower in my calculations.

Once I'd caught my error (not applying +1 gems to Empower), I'd have checked my own DPS calculations against that of the DPS calculator, and would have confirmed that they match. I would also have confirmed that my DPS calculations matched tooltip DPS, after accounting for the know omissions of tooltip DPS. I'd have spared the CA community a bunch of confusing and irrelevant discussion.
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Mea Culpa.

Shoulda coulda woulda. Don't worry mate, have a beer :) Prep your wrists for 3 months of grinding :)

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Jadran wrote:

Shoulda coulda woulda. Don't worry mate, have a beer :) Prep your wrists for 3 months of grinding :)

I'll drink to that! :-)

Hey, I was wondering what on the skill tree is best to prioritize after switching to CA, around lvl 55+? This would be after having the duelist (dirty tech) and shadow DoT nodes (entropy), but not much else. Seems like one could go for frenzy charges, the piercing shots cluster, or the DoT nodes up right from Shadow start (growth and decay)

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echelontee wrote:

Hey, I was wondering what on the skill tree is best to prioritize after switching to CA, around lvl 55+? This would be after having the duelist (dirty tech) and shadow DoT nodes (entropy), but not much else. Seems like one could go for frenzy charges, the piercing shots cluster, or the DoT nodes up right from Shadow start (growth and decay)

I think this will be based on personal preference and what gear you have access too. I tend to go for Growth and Decay -> Frenzy -> Piercing Shots (if you already have a Drillneck this could be switched) -> the last things I pick up are the Jewel Sockets.

Do we not consider using EK for leveling simply because the elemental spells scale better?

Wiki shows that both new cold skills - Frostbolt and Vortex - are available for Scion directly.