A potential change I'm keen to hear your thoughts on

Just thought about it.
Having ES on the mana would allow us to reserve mana for auras/heralds and still have plenty of "mana" (in the new form of ES) to spend to cast our spells.
Before, the ES was just converted to mana, that was then reserved (and lost).

We maybe lost AA/MoM mechanic but we certainly gained others


There are a lot of "faster ES recharge" nodes. If we take enough of them, we probably won't have mana problem :
- mana is used to reserve auras
- ES is used to cast spells
- faster ES recharge will recharge our ES quite quickly so the deadtime between 2 casts is not too penalizing

If the mana drain of AA is lowered (I read it was a possibility), it will still be totally viable.
But at this point, I admit it is pure speculation.

edit : some edit on the ES recharging speed (0.5s is probably a bit exagerated :p)

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neoatomium wrote:

Just thought about it.
Having ES on the mana would allow us to reserve mana for auras/heralds and still have plenty of "mana" (in the new form of ES) to spend to cast our spells.
Before, the ES was just converted to mana, that was then reserved (and lost).

We maybe lost AA/MoM mechanic but we certainly gained others

Only if we also give up life regen or life leech to support the constant casting of skills.

The cost benefit of AA/MoM is pretty out of whack if you ask me. High level arctic armour alone is one of the best forms of defence. It takes a bit to get it going, but it far outshines an evasion/acro build like someone mentioned above.

AA gets you a large damage reduction to most mobs and even full immunity to some, the mana regen lets you sustain a 6L without mana leech freeing an extra support slot, and then 30% global damage reduction on top of all that. Yeah, to me it seems slightly too strong for the cost. If you invest the same points into armour/evasion, at best you average 40-50% damage reduction from attacks only.

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ScottD wrote:

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neoatomium wrote:

Just thought about it.
Having ES on the mana would allow us to reserve mana for auras/heralds and still have plenty of "mana" (in the new form of ES) to spend to cast our spells.
Before, the ES was just converted to mana, that was then reserved (and lost).

We maybe lost AA/MoM mechanic but we certainly gained others

Only if we also give up life regen or life leech to support the constant casting of skills.

I edited my post so I will just copy/paste it here.

There are a lot of "faster ES recharge" nodes. If we take enough of them, we probably won't have mana problem :
- mana is used to reserve auras
- ES is used to cast spells
- faster ES recharge will recharge our ES quite quickly so the deadtime between 2 casts is not too penalizing

If the mana drain of AA is lowered (I read it was a possibility), it will still be totally viable.
But at this point, I admit it is pure speculation.

edit : some edit on the ES recharging speed (0.5s is probably a bit exagerated :p)

Or get a lot of ES cooldown speed, and mana is spent first. If that's true, MoM is even better now.

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lukeiy wrote:

The cost benefit of AA/MoM is pretty out of whack if you ask me. High level arctic armour alone is one of the best forms of defence. It takes a bit to get it going, but it far outshines an evasion/acro build like someone mentioned above.

AA gets you a large damage reduction to most mobs and even full immunity to some, the mana regen lets you sustain a 6L without mana leech freeing an extra support slot, and then 30% global damage reduction on top of all that. Yeah, to me it seems slightly too strong for the cost. If you invest the same points into armour/evasion, at best you average 40-50% damage reduction from attacks only.

Level 20 AA is only 202 damage reduction, even at 25 you cannot use it by itself, you need other defenses as well or you're dead. I've played a pure evasion and acro character and I really do not think AA outshines it at all. And not everyone using AA uses MoM, in fact I'd say very few do. Even then, MoM is not a simple "30% less damage", it's just splitting resources. All EB does is make ES better for life users, seeing as hybrid life/es is so convoluted and usually inefficient.

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XeroSlayer wrote:

None of these potential changes looks like spell casters will benefit from.

That is because they won't. People keep mentioning Zealots Oath and Ghost Reaver to make the proposed EB change work,that wouldn't fix the new EB it would totally break any character. Leech and regen are needed to survive, putting 1 or both on ES will gimp any character using EB.

There are also people talking about using more auras on mana and then casting with ES. Again this won't work. On both my EB / MoM / AA charscters I wear Alpha's Howl and grab all the aura clusters by the Witch, Scion, and Shadow. It is not possible to grab more aura nodes and also have enough life. With these nodes and AH I can run 2 60% auras, 1 herald, and clarity. There is not enough room for a second herald let alone another aura. A second herald pushes the required reservation above 100%.

The net gain of this change is zero. The utility of the new version of the node is zero. It is a bad idea that doesn't even deserve to be tested.

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lukeiy wrote:

The cost benefit of AA/MoM is pretty out of whack if you ask me. High level arctic armour alone is one of the best forms of defence. It takes a bit to get it going, but it far outshines an evasion/acro build like someone mentioned above.

AA gets you a large damage reduction to most mobs and even full immunity to some, the mana regen lets you sustain a 6L without mana leech freeing an extra support slot, and then 30% global damage reduction on top of all that. Yeah, to me it seems slightly too strong for the cost. If you invest the same points into armour/evasion, at best you average 40-50% damage reduction from attacks only.

Have you actually run evasion/acro? You get 40% attack damage reduction + 30% spell damage reduction + 50% melee damage reduction and 95% ranged attack damage reduction and it works 100% of the time, rather than stopping when you're OOM. It's really, really not easy to die; mo

It's even more absurdly good with CWDT-EC-IC. AA is great too, yes, but Acro+OG is just as good.

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Boem wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

and yeah, MoM AA is not tanky compared to other defenses at all, its tanky compared to having virtually no defenses which is usually the other choice most casters are faced with, MoM AA or just no defenses, hardly any life, hardly any life regen, either do the cloak of D AA thing or be completely undefended basically.

So why is this character running 76 with 100% modifiers on it at lvl 83 currently?

Spoiler

And dies like never?

I killed abaxoth yesterday in a 77 shrine for example with 90% modifiers. With 64%cold resis to top it off and 3.8k damage per projectile.

4% physical reduction, 75fire/64cold/78light etc maybe 8% evasion and phase/phase acro and 4k life.

Dual wielding as you can see, tabula rasa etc etc barely naked compared to other characters i have.

Just saying....

And yeah i think people should make choices on aura sacrificing if they wanna run EB/MoM that's a choice. Do i run grace this map or remove it for more buffer etc etc. AA is basically a cherry on top of a kiting defense system.(chill ground/effect + move speed on qaulity)

Peace,

-Boem-

Softcore league though, how many times has the character died before getting to Abaxoth? It would never survive hardcore tbh, the resistances aren't even maxed

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lukeiy wrote:

The cost benefit of AA/MoM is pretty out of whack if you ask me. High level arctic armour alone is one of the best forms of defence.....

If you stay out of higher/nasty maps and unfairly exclude all the well known hard hitters, that is.

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lukeiy wrote:

It takes a bit to get it going, but it far outshines an evasion/acro build like someone mentioned above

Again, while farming act bosses and doing early maps that might be true. Later on single hits can regularly surpass the four digits, making AA less and less effective against the incoming damage that is actually threatening while accro maintains its relative ehp increase, provided you have the buffer.

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lukeiy wrote:

AA gets you a large damage reduction to most mobs and even full immunity to some

The kind of damage sources AA makes you immune to wouldn't be a problem for other tanks either since its easily controllable. Also, AA does nothing for any damage that is not physical or fire, while accro works regardless of damage type.

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lukeiy wrote:

the mana regen lets you sustain a 6L without mana leech freeing an extra support slot,

It very well may not, depending on your main skill. All EB/MoM/AA builds i've played or directly interacted with used some form of mana leech to avoid issues in high DPS situations because...

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lukeiy wrote:

and then 30% global damage reduction on top of all that.[...]

... the EB/MoM/AA trifecta necessarily relies on you having 30%+ of your max life as unreserved mana at all times or you risk shutting your AA down aswell as stopping your attacks/casts, resulting in missed leech and dps control when it matters most, which then leads to swift death.

This is what people are talking about when they refer to the high investment of MoM, not just spreadsheets assuming optimal conditions. A MoM AA build is far from stable or safe if you can just sustain it on paper, unlike a coil tank or evasion where the mitigation is basically unconditional.