A potential change I'm keen to hear your thoughts on

"

Derimmler wrote:

"

Metronomy wrote:

"

Derimmler wrote:

Can somebody tell me how to sustain traps or even totems with this? seems quite hard without taking insane amounts of reduced ES delay (for EB) or mana/mana regen nodes (if u dont take EB)...

Oh and another question: Does ghost reaver still convert your life leech into ES leech or does it take mana leech as ES leech (if u have EB)? The old GR states "Life leech applies to Energy shield instead of Life".

EB / Zealots oath if you want good ES regen

Well i had that idea as well but sadly life regen and trap nodes are pretty much on opposite sides of the tree (being templar/marauder vs shadow(/ranger)). The problem is the inability to leech with traps/totems. Your suggestion would be fine with totems i guess.

I can't see how "new EB" would be good for trappers. I wouldn't pick it up at all. Just get a lot of mana/regen and run AA the hard way.

Hmmm. I'm not sure. The problem with this is that you are removing a defensive option from the game essentially. MoM will essentially become worthless without EB as everyone wants to run some auras and then their mana is too low to make good use of it.

On the contrary when you take that hit and you otherwise run out of mana and stop being able to do something for a while this wont happen as you'll be casting with your ES.

So thats a good thing in some respects and a bad in others. You are kind of forcing people to choose between 1000 mana and no auras with MoM. Or reserving your mana and not using it.

Unfortunately I feel, this will result in most people picking the second option of still using auras and just abandoning MoM.

The other thing to consider is that the new changes you are making will add more diversity anyway.

There will be many more melee builds and so the CoD meta will become lower anyway. Imo the game currently has 3 viable defense strategies which is soon to become 4. I will also list them in popularity to what I feel.

1) AA, MoM with EB 50%
2) Evasion, Acro etc 35%
3) High Block (which is now a lot harder but still viable defence strategy) 15%

and soon to be:

4) Using Fortify and endurance charges

Usually all builds especially on hc will pick one of these options. With the fourth being introduced we will see people now picking that option and the percentages might change to be like 35%, 25%, 10%, 30% (1, 2, 3, 4).

If you make this change we will actually see Path of Melee and stats will look like:

15%
30%
10%
45%

This is how i think things would go.

"

Nutius wrote:

I can't see how "new EB" would be good for trappers. I wouldn't pick it up at all. Just get a lot of mana/regen and run AA the hard way.

well i guess the main thing i was thinking about was the (in comparison) high mana cost of traps/totems. Currently you can just take EB and your unreserved mana + clarity is enough to compensate that cost. But im not so sure if that will be possible in act4. I'll do some math on that i guess.

when i first looked at this picture, it felt very awkward in the beginning to see this potential change. At the second glimpse i think it could be a very interesting change.

AA/MoM are both very strong synergistic defenses which require the same investment in passives and mana regen, which is a bit too efficient at the moment in the current meta. If eldrith battery would be altered that way shown in the pictutre MoM/AA would be more difficult to run together, while taking EB.
On the other hand you now can reserve nearly 100% of your mana and run AA while casting from your ES pool and use MoM. You have to invest in Mana and ES and regen, which might be difficult to do but for sure it would be possible with good gear - mabye a lvl 20+ AA isn't possbile but lvl 15-16 should be.


On the other hand it would open new possibilitys to hybrid builds while using MoM. Very mana intesive skills could also be casted easiliy while using EB with GR or ZO.

I see possible high power creep and abuse of this mechanic while using a specific unique: Shavrone's Revelation. The downside is completly nullified while using the new EB, so you can reserve 100% of your existing mana and have no problem casting expensive skills constantly. 5000 ES is relativly easy to achiev, especially when you can ignore mana/mana regen on the tree. The unique also conviniently provides huge amounts of ES as a synergy. Getting 5k Life and some life regen in addition to it and MoM could be very potent. Also the implementation of "ES on hit" jewels could be usefull to augment this mechanic.

Maybe an other possbile cool interaction with Aegis Aurora would be possible - GGG should consider it while testing.

Another thought that came to my mind is new EB on melee attack characters while using GR + LGOH with hybrid gear. 100% of mana can be reserved for auras this way. Also a ZO/LGOH/MoM combo could be very powerfull.



Personal conclusion:
The change to EB would be a direct slight nerf to Cloak of Defiance and the current meta but a indirect buff to the keystone MoM and all "x% mana is taken before life" mechanics. New combos with this new keystone + items would you let igonre mana management completly which could be a good and a bad thing for the game at the same time. Since you have to plan your build around this mechanic and you can not simple put on a single item to solve you mana issues (like Soultaker does) it might be fine in the end.

Personaly i would like to see this change of EB implemented in the core game, because it would shake up the meta and opens many new possibilitys.

"

Derimmler wrote:

"

Nutius wrote:

I can't see how "new EB" would be good for trappers. I wouldn't pick it up at all. Just get a lot of mana/regen and run AA the hard way.

well i guess the main thing i was thinking about was the (in comparison) high mana cost of traps/totems. Currently you can just take EB and your unreserved mana + clarity is enough to compensate that cost. But im not so sure if that will be possible in act4. I'll do some math on that i guess.

I've been playing trapper without EB all league (I know, I am silly sometimes) and it works well enough. You do need a lot of mana and mana regen, but it works just fine.

If this change comes with a complete rebalance of all the skill's mana costs then its sounds not to bad...

So your ES becomes a literal battery then. Makes sense thematically. Interesting change, I sorta(?) like the concept although it seems somewhat convoluted. How will the rules behind its interaction be explained? You can see that the additional rule like "taking damage won't stop recovery" needs explaining.

I don't know how it'll pan out ingame though. Too early to give feedback until we can see how it interacts with other changes ingame so I will reserve feedback till then.

I haven't read all 30 pages but my first thought was...Ghost reaver works? on what mana leech !

"

Lyralei wrote:

So your ES becomes a literal battery then. Makes sense thematically. Interesting change, I sorta(?) like the concept although it seems somewhat convoluted. How will the rules behind its interaction be explained? You can see that the additional rule like "taking damage won't stop recovery" needs explaining.

I don't know how it'll pan out ingame though. Too early to give feedback until we can see how it interacts with other changes ingame so I will reserve feedback till then.

What they mean by taking damage wont stop recovery is just that, instead of taking damage stopping recovery, casting spells / spending mana will stop recovery (because its ES over your mana and not your life)

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1247469/page/15#p10481411

Of course if you had MoM & take some of your damage as mana it will stop recovery as well, and it says so in the post I linked

soooo

how will i ever get 50-100 mana regen again?

this basically kills characters that have 50+ mana cost skills that spend fast...

i get it that the mana cost will drain from energy shield first but that will be spent pretty fast, and ass the regen on ES wont activate after not attacking for a while it will force waiting timers.

i mean, mana leech have no interaction with energyshield, you have to use life leech, so you cant leech life anymore.

i understand the idea, and it is pretty cool, maybe it should have been like this from the start? but the problem now is that i don't see any way of any char to get a consistent high Mana regen build going.