I think I'm missing something about Poison arrow vs burn prolif mechanics

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Ludvator wrote:

burn damage does not technically double dip from conc effect

first, ititial damage benefits from it
second, burn damage benefits from it too

so yeah, it is applied twice, but each time to different damage type

But the burn damage is parented from the final value of the initial damage so it does in fact double dip. At least that's how I understand it now and how I read it works elsewhere. Not to mention it explains my experience with the skill and answers my original question.

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Zed_ wrote:

But the burn damage is parented from the final value of the initial damage so it does in fact double dip. At least that's how I understand it now and how I read it works elsewhere. Not to mention it explains my experience with the skill and answers my original question.

Yeah, what Ludvator was saying is it technically doesn't double-dip so no game rules were broken, but it does work that way.

when initial hit is is made, the ignite base damage is set. The new base is now to be augmented by applicable mods

the thing is that the hit damage is not superior (parent) to burn damage. hit damage and DoT (burn) are two different base damage types, mutually exclusive

lets say you use spell to trigger ignite and have spell damage mods. spell damage never applies to damage over time (because already mentioned different base damage type) but ignite still indirectly benefits from it (larger initial hit -> higher ignite base). On the other hand, generic modifiers (such as fire/elemental/AoE/projectile..) can apply to both initial hit and DoT

h-how is the average player supposed to know any of this

I just read the thread and I still don't know what's going on

Ok now I think we're saying the same thing with different words. Adding a lvl 16 Conc Effect to a burn prolif area skill setup will increase the prolifed damage by a factor of 1.65 x 1.65, this is what I meant by double dipping. I didn't intend to imply game rules were broken.

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BearCares wrote:

h-how is the average player supposed to know any of this

I just read the thread and I still don't know what's going on

Average player should read up on some popular guides related to the skill he uses and probably find the basics there. :)

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BearCares wrote:

h-how is the average player supposed to know any of this

I just read the thread and I still don't know what's going on

you link a concentrated effect to fire-trap and watch the damage go up.

then you link and increased area of effect and watch the damage go down in comparison.

Then you ask the mythical question to yourself,

"WHY?"

And you find out.

Peace,

-Boem-

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BearCares wrote:

h-how is the average player supposed to know any of this

he plays the game, makes different builds and reads related mechanics articles

btw, this was in the patch notes (1.0.2 aka DoT patch)

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Zed_ wrote:

Ok now I think we're saying the same thing with different words. Adding a lvl 16 Conc Effect to a burn prolif area skill setup will increase the prolifed damage by a factor of 1.65 x 1.65, this is what I meant by double dipping. I didn't intend to imply game rules were broken.

yea, it works like double dipping :)

enemy resists behave the similar way (much more obvious here), first they are checked agains initial hit and then again vs burn damage.. Also keep in mind that resist penetration requres a hit thus cant work with burn damage

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Zed_ wrote:

Adding a lvl 16 Conc Effect to a burn prolif area skill setup will increase the prolifed damage by a factor of 1.65 x 1.65, this is what I meant by double dipping. I didn't intend to imply game rules were broken.

Fair enough, the whole situation is actually more confusing to those that have some knowledge of the game. The rule is hardcoded into the game, the way it applies bonuses to stats makes double dipping impossible and all such cases in the past were some sort of error, like those hybrid armor/eva passives. Honestly, you'd be likely to conclude it's not possible in this case too and ignite is kinda tricky to test properly.

Ignites caused by area damage double-dip with area damage (same story with projectile, trap, minion, totem damage). Prolif is not area damage, but the skill it supports may be. Conc Effect is an area damage modifier.

Shield Charge + Prolif + Conc = nothin'
Flameblast + Conc = double-dip Conc, no prolif needed