Leadup to 0.9.3

I don't understand the reasoning behind testing content and mechanics before they are tested. That doesn't even make sense, yet that is what is happening here.

It seems to me the expectations of the developers have become the following:

Alpha = actual testing.
Beta = gameplay preview.

I come to this conclusion based on the expressed feelings of the developers that they need to test and 'iron out' the content they are delivering to their beta testers. The job of beta testers is to help test and iron out content for release.

Alpha testing is supposed to be a form of UAT, but from what is being posted it sounds very much like the developers are treating alpha testing as beta testing(what it should be) and beta testing as somewhat more of an informal 'gameplay preview'.

I think this is due in part to the wrong expectations of many 'beta testers', and their actions.

I believe that this approach to 'testing' is becoming the norm for the current state of the industry, which is unfortunate.

As a long-time beta tester of many older games, I have seen it trending this way for some time now - but much more so in the last year or two.

I understand that many 'beta testers' may have quite the wrong idea and expectations about what a beta test actually is, but that doesn't mean the developers should cater to those wrong ideas and expectations.

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but that doesn't mean the developers should cater to those wrong ideas and expectations.

Unless, of course, the developers of this particular game are the ones who determine what are the correct ideas and expectations for their beta testers.

TOO EXCITED FOR THIS PATCH (please release before I'm hooked on Skyrim)

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Darkfyre wrote:

I don't understand the reasoning behind testing content and mechanics before they are tested. That doesn't even make sense, yet that is what is happening here.



I understand that many 'beta testers' may have quite the wrong idea and expectations about what a beta test actually is, but that doesn't mean the developers should cater to those wrong ideas and expectations.

It appears you understand it better than you think.

The devs shouldn't "cater" to wrong ideas/expectations, but they shouldn't ignore the fact that they exist.

Like it or not, beta is comprised of people that want to test and people that just want to play. This isn't entirely bad.. GGG can learn a lot just by looking at data generated from having thousands of people play. Even if some beta testers never provide written feedback, their play style tells the devs a lot.

I think you should just apply for Alpha access.

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Darkfyre wrote:

I don't understand the reasoning behind testing content and mechanics before they are tested. That doesn't even make sense, yet that is what is happening here.

The devs also test their changes before the alpha testers do, does that make the devs the real alpha testers and the alpha testers the real beta testers and the beta testers just demo players?!

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Darkfyre wrote:

It seems to me the expectations of the developers have become the following:

Alpha = actual testing.
Beta = gameplay preview.

This is not the case. GGG has rather defined testing roles for both test groups.

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Darkfyre wrote:

I come to this conclusion based on the expressed feelings of the developers that they need to test and 'iron out' the content they are delivering to their beta testers. The job of beta testers is to help test and iron out content for release.

When GGG mentions things like "ironing out" issues, they're talking about pressing the seams, not getting rid of wrinkles. The job of the alpha testers is to identify major flaws and bugs. If the game crashes constantly, that's the alphas' job to detect. If GGG implements a new system that just doesn't work or is game-breaking in its flaws, that's the alphas' job to detect. Beta testers are meant to find underlying bugs, and to refine and balance systems. Not to see if they work in the first place.

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Darkfyre wrote:

Alpha testing is supposed to be a form of UAT, but from what is being posted it sounds very much like the developers are treating alpha testing as beta testing(what it should be) and beta testing as somewhat more of an informal 'gameplay preview'.

Again, this is not the case. We're doing exactly as you stated we should: we're giving feedback on how we, a group of users, accept the changes.

There are very few testers in the alpha team. Enough to act as an alpha team, but not nearly enough to act as a beta team.

I've brought this point up more than once, but it's a very valid point on this issue: If GGG were to push every update directly to the beta, surpassing alpha testing, they would be paying exorbitant amounts towards bandwidth for all the downloads. The alpha gets updated every few days with incremental patches, sometimes more than once a day if a major flaw is detected that requires immediate patching. If the beta members were to download all these patches, GGG would simply be wasting money. This is a main reason why there is an alpha team; to prevent such catastrophic flaws from ever making it onto the beta realm.

I can understand and agree with Darkfyre at some points. Also its because im really a little piss off with these neverending delayes too. At the same time its clearly to me thats my personal problem. But i feel devs takes a big piece which were by the time transform into even more bigger one and result is beta with no update in last month. Well maybe it was right decision, i dont know..

Compared to pushing out an update that wasn't ready (i.e. not working on a basic level due to all intermingling systems not being finished), delaying it was a much better option. In any development process, you have to always expect major delays to occur at random times. GGG had a plan for what 0.9.3 was going to be, and they told us that plan. But as they were creating it, they realized other things could and should be changed to make it better. As they hit these delays, we were told about them in the form of "it'll take more time." This is intended to be a massive version update, not just another incremental patch to 0.9.2.

I agree there isnt one view how we can see this situation.

Yes! Sustenance!

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Darkfyre wrote:

I don't understand the reasoning behind testing content and mechanics before they are tested.

Developers don't need 1000 people to find and report the same bug. They don't need bugs/issues to be found faster than they can fix them.

When the obvious bugs/issues have been fixed they can use more people to help find the less obvious ones.