Fishing with Krillson (but he wins this round) (with videos)
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MonstaMunch wrote:
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CabooseDog wrote:
Ok cool thanks for answering interesting opinions. Some thoughts I had, if you would:
I've never heard of the term "Original Sin". So I, of course, go to Wikipedia and:
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Wikipedia wrote:
Original sin, also called ancestral sin,[1] is the Christian doctrine of humanity's state of sinresulting from the fall of man,[2] stemming from Adam's rebellion in Eden. This condition has been characterized in many ways, ranging from something as insignificant as a slight deficiency, or a tendency toward sin yet without collective guilt, referred to as a "sin nature", to something as drastic as total depravity or automatic guilt of all humans through collective guilt.
Now, you are “against” Abrahamic religions based on the belief in this idea/doctrine. Abrahamic religions are Islam, Judaism, and Christianity? If you look further down the wiki page, they say that Islam and Judaism don’t believe in/support this doctrine.
Now my questions:
1) What do YOU take “Original Sin” to mean? Or rather, what do you characterize it as?
2) How can you be “against” Abrahamic religions in general based on the concept of “Original Sin” if they don’t all believe in that?
3) What do you mean by “against”?
I’ll dissect the rest of your post after I understand this :p
Spoiler
This probably really shouldn’t be in this thread, but I can’t help asking XD
Also, I don’t mean to antagonize you in any way, just discussion :p
Keeping my replies in spoilers as we're still totally off topid :D
Spoiler
Original Sin is the idea that shortly after God created man in the garden of Eden, he decided to make a talking snake which he knew (because he claims to be all knowing) would trick Adam into eating the forbidden fruit. Rather than just forgive him like one might expect an all loving God to do, he decided that it meant that all humans from that point on were accountable for this fruit theft, and that we must all be sentenced to an eternity in hell as punishment.
As far as I'm aware, up to that point all three Abrahamic religions are unanimous. They all share the story of Adam and Eve and the garden of Eden. Christianity is the only one of the three that promote it as the basis for their religion, and that's why they are the only ones who actually coin the term Original Sin. However, the basic story is shared, and thanks to Divine Command theory, all of them have to view it as moral, or reject the whole thing outright.
When Christians refer to Jesus as the "Saviour" and that he died for our sins, that is the underlying sin they mean. Even if you have never done anything wrong yourself, you are considered a sinner because of Original Sin, and therefore you have to accept Jesus in order to be forgiven for your great great ancestor stealing a piece of fruit because he got tricked by a talking snake that God put there.
In Islam they also have the story about Adam and Eve eating the fruit, but their punishment was to be sent to earth. The difference is that while the Christian God chose to comdemn all mankind from that point onward, the Islamic God chose to forgive Adam and Eve. In theory this does mean that Islam doesn't have Original Sin in the sense of all mankind being born as sinners, but it does still mean that they believe in the ethical basis for it.
As for Jews, well, the whole thing was originally described in Genesis, so they don't have a lot of wiggle room to get out of it. The only difference is that they don't believe Jesus can save you, so they tend to gloss over that whole aspect of the story.
Seems its more accurate to say your "against" Christianity because of the Original Sin, though it provides no justification for you being "against" the other two Abrahamic religions.
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MonstaMunch wrote:
In Islam they also have the story about Adam and Eve eating the fruit, but their punishment was to be sent to earth. The difference is that while the Christian God chose to comdemn all mankind from that point onward, the Islamic God chose to forgive Adam and Eve. In theory this does mean that Islam doesn't have Original Sin in the sense of all mankind being born as sinners, but it does still mean that they believe in the ethical basis for it.
As for Jews, well, the whole thing was originally described in Genesis, so they don't have a lot of wiggle room to get out of it. The only difference is that they don't believe Jesus can save you, so they tend to gloss over that whole aspect of the story.
The part I highlighted doesn't really add up to me. The fact that humanity is considered sinners seem to be an important aspect of the Original Sin; if Islam doesn't believe that, then you can't be against them based on their acceptance of the Original Sin doctrine. As far as it goes, Islam believes that Adam and Eve sinned by disobeying God, who subsequently forgave them; that doesn't extrapolate to the rest of humanity.
Doesn't seem that Jews agree with this doctrine either:
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Wikipedia wrote:
the majority, however, do not hold Adam responsible for the sins of humanity,[10] teaching that, in Genesis 8:21 and 6:5-8, God recognized that Adam's sins are his alone.
Now, here is a bit more of an interesting question; you can still debate whether or not these two religions agree with this doctrine, but I want to know why you believe it to be "ethically abhorrent".
Spoiler
Now, guess what my religious affiliation is, or lack thereof
The part I highlighted doesn't really add up to me. The fact that humanity is considered sinners seem to be an important aspect of the Original Sin; if Islam doesn't believe that, then you can't be against them based on their acceptance of the Original Sin doctrine. As far as it goes, Islam believes that Adam and Eve sinned by disobeying God, who subsequently forgave them; that doesn't extrapolate to the rest of humanity.
Spoiler
For you the part of the story that you find "bad" is the part where God condemns all mankind to an eternity of concious suffering in hell. To me, it's the fact he set up the whole situation in the first place, and all three of the religions are unanimous in agreement on that part:
They all agree that an all knowing God created man, and one of the first things he did was to put some tasty looking fruit infront of him and send a talking snake to trick him into eating it.
Fuck God's reaction (which is where the religions diverge), the whole scenario is sick. Why didn't God just create man and put him in a garden with all the fruit he could eat and just let him eat it? wtf is up with sending talking snakes, and creating Adam to be so susceptible to their deception?
I'll grant you this: It would probably have been more theologically accurate for me to say I condemn the story of the forbidden fruit than to wrap it all up as Original Sin, but that's what it all boils down to. A mean sadistic God who acts like fruit doesn't grow on trees. It is also referred to as Original Sin because all three Abrahamic religions believe that it was the first sin committed by mankind.
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Now, guess what my religious affiliation is, or lack thereof
Reptillian?
Am off to bed, I suggest if we're going to carry on with this we should do it via PM so as not to bore everyone else to death :p
Last edited by MonstaMunch#6519 on Nov 20, 2014, 12:08:04 PM
Am off to bed, I suggest if we're going to carry on with this we should do it via PM so as not to bore everyone else to death :p
lol good night
Also; I'm surprised this thread isn't crawling with trolls already. The PoE community never fails to impress me. They're probably just standing back and waiting it to unravel XD
Last edited by CabooseDog#7947 on Nov 20, 2014, 12:14:03 PM
this thread may be valuable for psychology studies. people start talking about secret fishing in the game (lol secret fishing) and then they start debating religious things.
Amen
/thread
(since this word works for both religious and atheists)
"Individuation ends when emptiness and form become one" Carl Gustav Jung
this thread may be valuable for psychology studies. people start talking about secret fishing in the game (lol secret fishing) and then they start debating religious things.
Amen
/thread
(since this word works for both religious and atheists)
The thread isn't done till Krillson has been dealt with...
The thread isn't done till Krillson has been dealt with...
ok, lets say for a moment that fishing is real and it aint trolling from ggg, then two things arise:
1) so much time has passed since rumors about fish were started that its more than very likely that at least one or two people found out how to do it and what it takes to do it
thus
2) Chrillson grants a noticeable bonus to this activity and its outcome. however, lets look at it from each one of our personal perspectives on the matter: you just found out how to catch fish and zomg it does something soooo powerful BUT would you immediately go to forums and explain how this works for everyone to massively take the benefit from this?
i really doubt it.
but if its just trolling then im a fish myself and i cought the bait (maybe thats all there is to fishing in poe - Chrillson is fishing US (*holy shit thats creepy)).
but if fishing is real then what i just said is wrong and im going further away from the truth.
GOD DAMN IT, CHRIS! WHY?? WHYYYYY U DO DIS TO ME/US WHATEVER???!!
"Individuation ends when emptiness and form become one" Carl Gustav Jung
Last edited by dealer13#1544 on Nov 20, 2014, 4:21:06 PM
Rods were a part of this game before I ever even played it, albeit perhaps not in the same capacity as they are now.
I deeply resent any accusations of trolling. I have never trolled in my life, about anything, ever, nor will I. I'm like the antitroll. When trolls see me comin they be like "omfg, see that guy? He's like, the exact opposite of us" and then all the other trolls are like "well yeah, can't argue with that, obvious fact is obvious".
I actually haven't read this thread in its entirety so I can't comment on whether all the claims being made are legit, but fishing most certainly is, and all the people who say it isn't are just jelly and/or too lazy to work it all out.
When I say that for me, rods being in this game has been totally worth it, I meant it.
lurn2fish bro. <3
When you make a claim, the burden of proof falls on you, bro. <3
You claim you can fish, want to prove it? Till that day, you're just a troll.
Occam's Razor. Fishing exists in so many games, that its simpler to assume it exists in PoE than formulate some complex reason why GGG omitted it.
PoE Origins - Piety's story http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2081910
