[2.1 Ghazzy - Summoner Guides] High Budget Builds

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ladoodlerocker wrote:

Everything besides the pledge is stash trash. Think how cheap this build is. honestly I accidentally bought a 6l pledge, 5l is almost equal. I can't afford mana cost to run melee damage on full life yet so I run reduced mana which is pretty neat. look at my gem levels, then think about what I am about to say. I am a level 70 who is soloing 77 maps. yes thats how awesome this build is. TY ghazzy. For reference, I have 5.2k ES and NO jewels yet.

Haha cheers bro, i wouldn't recommend that type of gearing but as you said, its insane already ;)
HIgher lvl maps can be somewhat rippy with that gear though, so be careful!

Thanks for the reply and advice man. Hey, I saw a build in the build compendium. Uses knitted horror spectres which have 100% pierce and bleed chance. Use raise specter-lmp-gmp or something? This allows you to use bloodlust. At max level is 10% MORE extra mellee phys damage than Melee phys damage gem itself. I mean, 10% increased extra wouldn't matter that much but this is more.

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ladoodlerocker wrote:

Thanks for the reply and advice man. Hey, I saw a build in the build compendium. Uses knitted horror spectres which have 100% pierce and bleed chance. Use raise specter-lmp-gmp or something? This allows you to use bloodlust. At max level is 10% MORE extra mellee phys damage than Melee phys damage gem itself. I mean, 10% increased extra wouldn't matter that much but this is more.

The problem is the AI of Knitted horrors that they are not attacking 100% of the time like many other spectres do. This means that the uptime of the bleed effect is not guaranteed, and not always applied instantly making it an unreliable increase of DPS.

My pleasure bro, just glad i can be of help!

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Nauzhror wrote:

His spreadsheet simply doesn't factor in some skill gems as options - that does nothing to prove their supposed inferiority.

Without an explanation of what I'm miscalculating/misunderstanding I really see no reason to assume my math is wrong, especially since I have a masters degree in mathematics.

My own math showed them to be inferior when affected by hatred, but otherwise superior. You yourself are promoting anger > hatred due to hatred doing nothing for flame sentinels damage. As such using a gem setup alongside anger and sentinels that is only better when accompanied by hatred doesn't make much sense.

Moved this question in from the Low budget build thread.

To avoid confusion in our discussion;
I do not have a masters degree in mathematics, hence why i have always talked to MatrixFactor & Axazol to get proper numbers and minmaxed gem setups for the build guides i make. Here is a link to the DPS calculator made by MatrixFactor, I believe that it is him you need to speak to, to make sure you get 100% correct information, rather than me being in the risk of giving incorrect info.

Google Drive link for SRS DPS Calculator;
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kRUJ-aNAyvQ5lHqYpXEdZDbZu2_8JysiDZnsdbiVpy8/edit#gid=0

Profile Link to MatrixFactor:
https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/MatrixFactor

Profile Link to Axazol:
https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/axazol


Both of these guys can give you exact information.



To respond to the reason why i am suggesting anger over hatred with the Flame Sentinels is that the build is not solely relying on SRS to do the DPS but also the spectres, with that in to the calculations I decided that Anger will be the better choice, even if the DPS outcome might be slightly better using Hatred as it would be a more smooth DPS output from the build itself when in need to dodge / move rather than to cast. The purpose behind that build was to have use of more or less all minions rather than focusing 100% on 1.

this build has tons of jewel slots in tree so what kind of jewel you use?
+minion damage / health but what else?

i mean what kind of stat priorities / unique jewels you use? :)

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Drikon wrote:

this build has tons of jewel slots in tree so what kind of jewel you use?
+minion damage / health but what else?

i mean what kind of stat priorities / unique jewels you use? :)

Taken from the first post:

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Ghazzy wrote:

Jewels:

Affixes in order of efficiency:

1) Minion Damage (Prefix)
2) Cast Speed (Suffix)
3) Cast Speed While Wielding Staves (Prefix)
4) Cast Speed While Casting Fire Spells (Prefix)
5) Energy Shield / Dexterity / Resistances (Anything to help gearing really)

Again, these stats are the absolute best ones in order of efficiency, as long as you have Minion Damage + any of the cast speed modifiers it will be a good gem for you. Anything extra is just a bonus.

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Ghazzy wrote:

To respond to the reason why i am suggesting anger over hatred with the Flame Sentinels is that the build is not solely relying on SRS to do the DPS but also the spectres, with that in to the calculations I decided that Anger will be the better choice, even if the DPS outcome might be slightly better using Hatred as it would be a more smooth DPS output from the build itself when in need to dodge / move rather than to cast. The purpose behind that build was to have use of more or less all minions rather than focusing 100% on 1.

I understood that Anger was used because it buffs the flame sentinels in addition to the SRS intead of just the SRS.

I just meant that if a specific gem setup is only ideal when running hatred (if that is true like I think it is), then it makes sense to use something else in a build that doesn't utilize hatred.

The only thing I'm less sure of is why you propose flame sentinels alongside SRS, and stygian revenants in the build that doesn't use SRS.

I'd understand it if the build was using arc or ball lightning to proc EE, but you don't seem to be suggesting people do anything of the sort.

Gear-wise what would you consider top priority to ditch?

Currently level 90, 3,736 HP 1,593 mana, 2,049 ES.

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Nauzhror wrote:

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Ghazzy wrote:

To respond to the reason why i am suggesting anger over hatred with the Flame Sentinels is that the build is not solely relying on SRS to do the DPS but also the spectres, with that in to the calculations I decided that Anger will be the better choice, even if the DPS outcome might be slightly better using Hatred as it would be a more smooth DPS output from the build itself when in need to dodge / move rather than to cast. The purpose behind that build was to have use of more or less all minions rather than focusing 100% on 1.

I understood that Anger was used because it buffs the flame sentinels in addition to the SRS intead of just the SRS.

I just meant that if a specific gem setup is only ideal when running hatred (if that is true like I think it is), then it makes sense to use something else in a build that doesn't utilize hatred.

The only thing I'm less sure of is why you propose flame sentinels alongside SRS, and stygian revenants in the build that doesn't use SRS.

I'd understand it if the build was using arc or ball lightning to proc EE, but you don't seem to be suggesting people do anything of the sort.

Gear-wise what would you consider top priority to ditch?

Currently level 90, 3,736 HP 1,593 mana, 2,049 ES.

Spoiler

The EE procs are displayed in the build guide showing that if you use revenants we apply with Fire and if we use flame sentinels/SRS we apply with lightning, or have i missed something? :S

Gear:

Your rings looks beast, shame about not having %ES gain but for low budget they look beast!
The gear you're using are all looking pretty damn great to me, the only changes would be if you find any new piece that would be a significant upgrade and within affordable range. If not more/better jewels.
If you're using EB/ZO I would suggest looking to get a +3 staff over the Pledge as you have no use of the mana regen at that point, so that would be the top priority if you use that style.

I just didn't see any skills being suggested for use in the zoomancer guide that'd be able to proc EE.

ie. It calls for 6L staff for SRS, 6L chest for spectres.

That leaves helmet for zombies, and boots/gloves for other stuff:

Generosity+Anger+Arctic Armor+Desecrate

Convocation+Flesh Offering+Haste+Chaos Golem

Vaal Haste in one ring. Then you suggested Vaal Summon Skeletons as next priority. That leaves no room for something like arc to proc EE, and thus as best as I can tell, no real reason to go with flame sentinels over revenants if you'd otherwise prefer revenants. It also doesn't seem to leave room for movement skills, though that I personally solve by putting Lightning Warp+Less Duration+Faster Casting in my offhand and switching to that when I want to quickly move across a map. I suppose the same can be done with Spell Totem+Arc+Faster Casting or something similar. Switch weapons, cast it, switch back.

None of that though is suggested in the zoomancer guide that I saw, nor does the zoomancer tree you posted show you taking EE.

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Nauzhror wrote:

I just didn't see any skills being suggested for use in the zoomancer guide that'd be able to proc EE.

ie. It calls for 6L staff for SRS, 6L chest for spectres.

That leaves helmet for zombies, and boots/gloves for other stuff:

Generosity+Anger+Arctic Armor+Desecrate

Convocation+Flesh Offering+Haste+Chaos Golem

Vaal Haste in one ring. Then you suggested Vaal Summon Skeletons as next priority. That leaves no room for something like arc to proc EE, and thus as best as I can tell, no real reason to go with flame sentinels over revenants if you'd otherwise prefer revenants. It also doesn't seem to leave room for movement skills, though that I personally solve by putting Lightning Warp+Less Duration+Faster Casting in my offhand and switching to that when I want to quickly move across a map. I suppose the same can be done with Spell Totem+Arc+Faster Casting or something similar. Switch weapons, cast it, switch back.

None of that though is suggested in the zoomancer guide that I saw, nor does the zoomancer tree you posted show you taking EE.

I'll doublecheck it, got too many guides out! >,<
Movement skills are always optional, its up to the user to decide how the build is used, I personally prefer to use Flame Dash as its a single gem use. Others prefer LW (3 gem setup), if you change weapons with spirits casted you will despawn them so that is not an option for Arc style.
The movement skill can always be used over any of the utility gems, also in a low budget style you would only have 5Ls opening up 1s in wep and 1s in chest piece. The grayzone appears when you are using the builds at a mid range budget, like yourself. You have great gear for using low budget build, its all about tweaking the utility for your personal preference.


I took a check on the Zoomancer style, it does not have EE no, the 6 Keystone does with Glacial Cascade. Must have mixed it up.
You have the tweak option in the Zoomancer to add via a spell totem + Arc the EE. However, I felt that with the damage from the army of SRS & Flame Sentinels are insane enough.
I very rarely use EE in my SRS builds when doing maps, specially in hardcore i actually prefer to throw out a spell totem + Summon skeleton before i use EE during mapping. I do however, switch it in for boss kills as those fights actually makes a notable effect.