[1.2] BorWoe Max block + acro Supertank-build - 25k or 45k dps - Beyond (HC) - Affordable - [Ranger]

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_StoneWall_ wrote:

Damn Cyclone no longer supported by Multistrike

Good thing i'm using Dual strike :)

I had been planning to play a build like Zvikos for awhile now and I have a few things that I don't quite understand with this build and why I dont really see how it's a improvement over his.


First, ranger start but you go all the way through duelist which would imply that you think that ranger has a better start, and that putting 5 points into evasion/hp nodes is worth it when your overall evasion is still going to be trash in the end due to having to use rainbowstrides, I just don't understand why you basically waste 5 points on minor evasion boosts and lower HP nodes. I would also argue that both starts are largely the same, with yours allowing to get acrobats sooner but duelist allows you to boost your dual wield block considerably faster which in the end is a moot point.

You also "waste" 5 points to get blood drinker and 20% HP which doesn't sound bad on paper but by doing this you sacrifice getting the most epic HP/Flask node wheel in game with Profane chemistry..... With the new upgraded flasks that +60% flask effects will far outweigh a 2% life leech and the minor HP gain you get over spending 4 points. If you're using blood rage you wouldn't even need this node, especially if a ring of yours has a little bit of leech on it to begin with.

All in all I really don't see this as an improvement, and instead a little bit weaker then the original posted by Zviko. Just my thoughts, feel free to correct me otherwise.

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Gnomestapo wrote:

I had been planning to play a build like Zvikos for awhile now and I have a few things that I don't quite understand with this build and why I dont really see how it's a improvement over his.


First, ranger start but you go all the way through duelist which would imply that you think that ranger has a better start, and that putting 5 points into evasion/hp nodes is worth it when your overall evasion is still going to be trash in the end due to having to use rainbowstrides, I just don't understand why you basically waste 5 points on minor evasion boosts and lower HP nodes. I would also argue that both starts are largely the same, with yours allowing to get acrobats sooner but duelist allows you to boost your dual wield block considerably faster which in the end is a moot point.

You also "waste" 5 points to get blood drinker and 20% HP which doesn't sound bad on paper but by doing this you sacrifice getting the most epic HP/Flask node wheel in game with Profane chemistry..... With the new upgraded flasks that +60% flask effects will far outweigh a 2% life leech and the minor HP gain you get over spending 4 points. If you're using blood rage you wouldn't even need this node, especially if a ring of yours has a little bit of leech on it to begin with.

All in all I really don't see this as an improvement, and instead a little bit weaker then the original posted by Zviko. Just my thoughts, feel free to correct me otherwise.

Thanks for the feedback!

First off, I'd like to point out that when i made the acrobatics version, Zviko's had the IR version, and no alternative yet.

I made the ranger version originally because i got pm's if it could work, as it seems some didnt like how duelists looked, or other reasons unknown to me, so i made the slightly gimped (compared to duelist) version first.

Then i tinkered more on it and came to the conclusion that the ranger one could be viable in other ways, and came up with this build: (thanks to reddit)



In that build, it'd be natural to take both the starting nodes, as we'll be cutting off some hp nodes in exchange for dps and evasion, and the ranger nodes provide both. And we're already high up the duelist start due to the many useful nodes there, so it made sense to get both.

That variation of the build has 204% hp, 187% evasion and 34k dps with blood magic (tier 1 rings, 30k with t3).

I'd say it's pretty different take than Zivko's. Also in addition my trees are a bit different, i take the life leech e.g. and I've 5 different variations, varying from 244% hp / 24k dps (this rangers original overkill hp build) to 204% with 40k dps.

I disagree that 17% life and 44% evasion is a waste of points (scion wheel has 20% life for 4 points).

I also disagree that the overall evasion is crap because of rainbowstrides, especially when taking Blind in the equation. (Although blind is now nerfed from 75% to 50% very recently).

Two of the builds (the one i linked above is one) have both blood drinker and profane chemistry. Again, 20% hp is not minor over 4 nodes, it's the norm with 1.2.

There are 5 alternatives all in all, although the layout might be messy. I appreciate your feedback, but i feed ive solid grounds on the variations of the builds and what they're meant for.

Also the variations I've posted have quite a bit higher dps.

I'm not claiming my build is better, but it's the approach i'll be taking. :)

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krilox wrote:

Also the variations I've posted have quite a bit higher dps.

I'm not claiming my build is better, but it's the approach i'll be taking. :)

That's a fair point I just think that in the end the duelist has more versatility, because the duelist starting points are too good to give up with high dmg and great HP versus the defensive route of the ranger where the ranger has to take those evasion/hp nodes, duelist if he is tanky enough endgame can forgo those for more DPS so in essence the DPS of the duelist with this build will always potentially be 5 points higher for a smidgen less evasion/hp.

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Gnomestapo wrote:

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krilox wrote:

Also the variations I've posted have quite a bit higher dps.

I'm not claiming my build is better, but it's the approach i'll be taking. :)

That's a fair point I just think that in the end the duelist has more versatility, because the duelist starting points are too good to give up with high dmg and great HP versus the defensive route of the ranger where the ranger has to take those evasion/hp nodes, duelist if he is tanky enough endgame can forgo those for more DPS so in essence the DPS of the duelist with this build will always potentially be 5 points higher for a smidgen less evasion/hp.

Aye, i feel like the 244% ranger might be an overkill hp-wise, even for the HC league, and i believe the 204% / 34k dps one is the best route of them, then switching to the mana 40k+ dps one when possible with some respeccing.

Maybe i should post that up as the 'main' build instead, as you do have a point about the original ranger build. I continued tinkering on it, and felt the new one is better.

I still disagree that +12 life flat, 17% life and 60% evasion for 5 points is a smidgen less though :P

Also, picking the ranger life nodes, you won't have to go all the way up to Sovereignty to pick hp nodes, which imo enables more flexibility. (be it dps or evasion).

Also that version has Ondars, bit less hp, and quite high dps :)

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krilox wrote:

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_StoneWall_ wrote:

Damn Cyclone no longer supported by Multistrike

Good thing i'm using Dual strike :)

I know I know. I was just having fun combining the two, but it seems Cyclone is safer without Multistrike.

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_StoneWall_ wrote:

I know I know. I was just having fun combining the two, but it seems Cyclone is safer without Multistrike.

Aye, i used cyclone + multi in invasion as well, it's a shame. Hopefully it won't be called Desynclone anymore at least. :P

I've decided to level the 204% hp 34k dps build instead of the overkill 244% one :) Quite high damage for a tank! What do you think Gnomestapo about the changes?

Updated the main build, and put the older main build as an alternative.