Here you go folks... after some experimenting, testing, and math, I can confirm that the following variant is definitively superior to the "official" build for mapping. Official build is likely better for Atziri/Uber Atziri.
TL;DR --> more DPS, equal or better survivability, does not require Shavronne's Revelation or Blood Magic.
Pros & Cons vs Official build
Pros
* 30% more DPS vs capped/overcapped enemies and bosses; all map bosses die much more quickly!
* Higher survivability through use of dual curse, high ES shield, Vaal Discipline, and higher DPS if using Life Leech gem
* Half Regen maps are EZ mode, and No Regen maps are more easily doable
* Can more easily do elemental reflect maps
* Does not use Shavronne's Revelation, does not require the hassle of using the Blood Magic keystone.
* Can run just as well with a 5L Shavronne's Wrappings as with a 6L (only lose a couple % DPS with lack of Herald of Ice)
* Gets to keep Dream Fragments, which prevents Freeze and helps with mana regeneration.
Cons
* Cannot do Blood Magic Maps
* Does not get the RF burning damage against enemies right near you
* Have to Chrome your Mjolner if you want to swap in Life Leech gem (BBR is easy to get, though)
* Need to acquire a Meginord's Vise corrupted w/Temp Chains or Elemental Weakness on Hit, which may be difficult to get.
* This is Witch/Scion only. Marauder is sitting on a fairly massive 6 point disadvantage. Sorry, Marauders :(
Survivability/Defense
This build has FIVE main advantages over the "official" build in terms of survivability: First, equal or superior ES can be achieved without needing as much passive investment:
Because this build does not make any attempt to use Righteous Fire, Rise of the Phoenix is not needed. This allows the use of a high ES shield with Spell Damage, such as this:
There is flexibility here depending on your wealth. If you don't have 20-30 exalts to buy a shield like the above, you can sacrifice as needed either on the ES or Spell Damage until you find a shield in your price range.
With my gear and tree (below), I am at 6200 ES, which is comparable to what is achieved in the "official" build, but with much less passive investment in ES nodes.
Screenshot
Second, greater elemental resistance is achieved by taking the flask nodes in the witch tree:
This provides an additional +3 elemental resistance when your flask is up, which results in taking 40% less elemental damage during flask uptime.
This also means that when using Saffell's Frame for Elemental Reflect maps, you achieve 100% lightning resist during flask uptime and take zero damage from reflect.
Third, this build also has the option of using 2 defensive curses, and is not as dependent on the Life Leech gem for leeching life due to the use of Warlord's Mark:
Temporal Chains on Hit is used from the gloves, and Warlord's Mark is used alongside a level 1 CWDT gem. You have your choice of trying for Temp Chains on hit (defense) or Elemental Weakness on hit (offense) in the gloves. Warlord's Mark grants a significant amount of Life Leech from any enemies who are damaging you, and it removes the need to use the Life Leech gem.
Fourth, this build achieves significantly higher DPS when Life Leech is used instead of Iron Will compared to the official build
See math below in DPS section & Iron Will comparison for exact details, but this means that if you do choose to use Life Leech as your support gem, you get more DPS and thus more survivability as well from the extra leech.
Fifth and finally, this build, by using an alternative gem setup, allows for the inclusion of Vaal Discipline.
Vaal Discipline is an effective 'panic switch' to hit if you get in trouble or need a boost vs a particularly difficult boss. It's particularly effective if you ever get in trouble with nasty damage-over-time effects (corrupting blood when your flask is down / thena moga in vulnerability map / etc).
---------------------------------
For those with much more wealth than I have, here's the BiS gear and what it would get you:
With those 3 items, you would have:
+~25 chaos resist instead of -60 (with flask up, you would be almost at capped chaos res)
+~1550 total Energy Shield (bringing you up to ~7700)
+10% move speed
Offense/DPS
DPS comparisons with OP & Proof of DPS parity without Righteous Fire
3 Notes: 1) My screenshots are of level 20 Discharge & Arc; I do not have level 21 gems as in the OP. To make an accurate comparison, you must either multiply my DPS by 1.099 or OP's DPS by 0.91. 2) OP's screenshots are outdated (from pre-1.2), mine are from 1.2. This accounts for a lot of the difference between OP's screenshot for Arc and my screenshot for Arc (post-nerf in 1.2). To make an accurate comparison, an additional 1.15 multiplier is made to compensate for the ~15% nerf made to Arc. 3) All Screenshots were obtained with the gear listed below in the gear section, and with this level 93 passive tree.
With that in mind, here's my screenshots of Discharge and Arc (supported by Iron Will, same as OP):
Discharge
Arc
Multiplying by 1.099 to compare to OP's level 21 gems gives: OP Discharge = 12639.5 Dmg/cast
My Discharge (if level 21) = 11870.8 Dmg/cast
OP Arc (pre-nerf) = 2495 Dmg/cast
My Arc (if level 21 & adjusted to pre-nerf levels) = 2319 Dmg/cast
CONCLUSION: This variant of the build, if using the same DPS setup (Discharge/Arc/Iron Will), achieves parity with the official variant as in the OP. At level 93, the DPS is about 6-7% less. By level 100, the DPS will likely be a few % more. Such a difference is too small to be noticed either way. For all intents and purposes, they're the same.
HOWEVER, in reality, this variant is superior in DPS to the official build due to how the DPS is achieved. The TL;DR version is this: Because this build achieves its DPS primarily from ADDITIVE sources (the passive tree) instead of MULTIPLICATIVE ones (Righteous Fire), Iron Will can be swapped out to achieve higher effective DPS when it counts.
Iron Will math comparison vs OP, @ level 100
NOTE: The purpose of this section is simply to show the relative importance of Iron Will in each build.
Official Build
100% base spell dmg
+10% from shavs
+15% from quality on RF
+16% from Passive Tree
+30% doryani's invitation
(+98% Iron Will)
* 1.3 Pain Attunement
* (1.59 * 1.26) Righteous Fire [augmented by Inner Force & Athleticism]
-------------------
= 700% increased spell dmg with Iron Will
= 445% increased spell dmg without Iron Will (37% damage reduction)
This Build
100% base spell dmg
+10% from shavs
+30% doryani's invitation
+223% from Passive Tree
+62% from shield [will vary depending on your shield]
+98% Iron Will
* 1.3 Pain Attunement
-------------------
= 680% increased spell dmg with Iron Will
= 553% increased spell dmg without Iron Will (19% damage reduction)
2 Conclusions can be drawn from the above: 1) While this build merely achieves parity with OP when Iron Will is used, this build is noticeably superior when Life Leech is used (i.e. when Iron Will is not). 2) Because of #1 and also because so much of the Passive Tree damage is specifically Lightning, we can revisit using Lightning Penetration instead of Iron Will as a more optimal source of DPS.
DPS superiority: Lightning Penetration
As per above, this build is not nearly as dependent on Iron Will. A decent amount of its +damage nodes are also specific to lightning. Thus, it turns out that Lightning Penetration winds up being a superior option to use in place of Iron Will.
Against 0% resist enemies, Lightning Penetration results in DPS about the same as Iron Will. When it matters most - against overcapped enemies/bosses - Lightning Penetration results in a whopping 30% more DPS than Iron Will.
Screenshot w/Level 19 q20 Lightning Penetration
Lightning Penetration vs Iron Will Math
We simply need to determine the damage that Arc and Discharge each do, and add them individually. This will tell us how much damage is done every time Mjolner procs, which is what we care about. Note that we need to calculate the Lightning Damage aspect of Discharge separately since only that aspect penetrates.
Scenario A: 0% resist enemy, Lightning Penetration ~= Iron Will [arc + discharge] = [total]
Iron Will (see screenshots in DPS comparison section above)
(((161+3173)/2)*1.02) + (((2519+3779)/2)+((2305+3422)/2)+((477+9101)/2)*1.02) = 11017 DPS/proc
The gear here is pretty straightforward if you've read the OP. The gear itself is basically the same except for the use of an ES/Spell Damage shield instead of RotP.
Gem Setup
You want a gem setup very similar to the OP, but with a few key differences. First, a corrupt Meginord's Vise with either Elemental Weakness or Temporal Chains is used in replacement of a 6L with curse on hit. As such, 6L Shavs is not strictly necessary.
Auras are placed in the chest and Herald of Ice is added to the OP's gem setup, which frees up a 4L (in this case, the boots), to enable a level 1 CWDT + Warlord's Mark + Increased AoE setup. Vaal Discipline is placed in this link, as well (though it is not triggered by CWDT).
Herald of Ice is mostly a novelty gem; you could place a level 1 / 20% Arctic Armour to get some move speed if you can sustain the regen, or use a Portal gem, if you don't want to use Herald of Ice.
Some thoughts on Uber Atziri & Energy Shield
For those of you who are more comfortable around the 7K ES mark, but don't have any BiS gear to get there, here is an alternative Level 95 Tree that doesn't sacrifice too much DPS but will get your ES to 7000+ with gear equivalent to mine.
I've seen a lot of discussion about Uber Atziri and "can this build do her?"; I personally have no interest in Atziri farming, but I think that if you got the BiS gear and used this modified passive tree to get away from shock nodes (Atziri cannot be shocked), you'd be good to go - for just a little DPS sacrifice, you would get around 9k+ ES if using BiS items.
I kind of doubt that this variant of the build is Uber viable without any of the BiS gear, but I don't know.
Here you go folks... after some experimenting, testing, and math, I can confirm that the following variant is definitively superior to the "official" build for mapping. Official build is likely better for Atziri/Uber Atziri.
TL;DR --> more DPS, equal or better survivability, does not require Shavronne's Revelation or Blood Magic.
Pros & Cons vs Official build
Pros
* 30% more DPS vs capped/overcapped enemies and bosses; all map bosses die much more quickly!
* Higher survivability through use of dual curse, high ES shield, Vaal Discipline, and higher DPS if using Life Leech gem
* Half Regen maps are EZ mode, and No Regen maps are more easily doable
* Can more easily do elemental reflect maps
* Does not use Shavronne's Revelation, does not require the hassle of using the Blood Magic keystone.
* Can run just as well with a 5L Shavronne's Wrappings as with a 6L (only lose a couple % DPS with lack of Herald of Ice)
* Gets to keep Dream Fragments, which prevents Freeze and helps with mana regeneration.
Cons
* Cannot do Blood Magic Maps
* Does not get the RF burning damage against enemies right near you
* Have to Chrome your Mjolner if you want to swap in Life Leech gem (BBR is easy to get, though)
* Need to acquire a Meginord's Vise corrupted w/Temp Chains or Elemental Weakness on Hit, which may be difficult to get.
* This is Witch/Scion only. Marauder is sitting on a fairly massive 6 point disadvantage. Sorry, Marauders :(
Survivability/Defense
This build has FIVE main advantages over the "official" build in terms of survivability: First, equal or superior ES can be achieved without needing as much passive investment:
Because this build does not make any attempt to use Righteous Fire, Rise of the Phoenix is not needed. This allows the use of a high ES shield with Spell Damage, such as this:
There is flexibility here depending on your wealth. If you don't have 20-30 exalts to buy a shield like the above, you can sacrifice as needed either on the ES or Spell Damage until you find a shield in your price range.
With my gear and tree (below), I am at 6200 ES, which is comparable to what is achieved in the "official" build, but with much less passive investment in ES nodes.
Screenshot
Second, greater elemental resistance is achieved by taking the flask nodes in the witch tree:
This provides an additional +3 elemental resistance when your flask is up, which results in taking 40% less elemental damage during flask uptime.
This also means that when using Saffell's Frame for Elemental Reflect maps, you achieve 100% lightning resist during flask uptime and take zero damage from reflect.
Third, this build also has the option of using 2 defensive curses, and is not as dependent on the Life Leech gem for leeching life due to the use of Warlord's Mark:
Temporal Chains on Hit is used from the gloves, and Warlord's Mark is used alongside a level 1 CWDT gem. You have your choice of trying for Temp Chains on hit (defense) or Elemental Weakness on hit (offense) in the gloves. Warlord's Mark grants a significant amount of Life Leech from any enemies who are damaging you, and it removes the need to use the Life Leech gem.
Fourth, this build achieves significantly higher DPS when Life Leech is used instead of Iron Will compared to the official build
See math below in DPS section & Iron Will comparison for exact details, but this means that if you do choose to use Life Leech as your support gem, you get more DPS and thus more survivability as well from the extra leech.
Fifth and finally, this build, by using an alternative gem setup, allows for the inclusion of Vaal Discipline.
Vaal Discipline is an effective 'panic switch' to hit if you get in trouble or need a boost vs a particularly difficult boss. It's particularly effective if you ever get in trouble with nasty damage-over-time effects (corrupting blood when your flask is down / thena moga in vulnerability map / etc).
---------------------------------
For those with much more wealth than I have, here's the BiS gear and what it would get you:
With those 3 items, you would have:
+~25 chaos resist instead of -60 (with flask up, you would be almost at capped chaos res)
+~1550 total Energy Shield (bringing you up to ~7700)
+10% move speed
Offense/DPS
DPS comparisons with OP & Proof of DPS parity without Righteous Fire
3 Notes: 1) My screenshots are of level 20 Discharge & Arc; I do not have level 21 gems as in the OP. To make an accurate comparison, you must either multiply my DPS by 1.099 or OP's DPS by 0.91. 2) OP's screenshots are outdated (from pre-1.2), mine are from 1.2. This accounts for a lot of the difference between OP's screenshot for Arc and my screenshot for Arc (post-nerf in 1.2). To make an accurate comparison, an additional 1.15 multiplier is made to compensate for the ~15% nerf made to Arc. 3) All Screenshots were obtained with the gear listed below in the gear section, and with this level 93 passive tree.
With that in mind, here's my screenshots of Discharge and Arc (supported by Iron Will, same as OP):
Discharge
Arc
Multiplying by 1.099 to compare to OP's level 21 gems gives: OP Discharge = 12639.5 Dmg/cast
My Discharge (if level 21) = 11870.8 Dmg/cast
OP Arc (pre-nerf) = 2495 Dmg/cast
My Arc (if level 21 & adjusted to pre-nerf levels) = 2319 Dmg/cast
CONCLUSION: This variant of the build, if using the same DPS setup (Discharge/Arc/Iron Will), achieves parity with the official variant as in the OP. At level 93, the DPS is about 6-7% less. By level 100, the DPS will likely be a few % more. Such a difference is too small to be noticed either way. For all intents and purposes, they're the same.
HOWEVER, in reality, this variant is superior in DPS to the official build due to how the DPS is achieved. The TL;DR version is this: Because this build achieves its DPS primarily from ADDITIVE sources (the passive tree) instead of MULTIPLICATIVE ones (Righteous Fire), Iron Will can be swapped out to achieve higher effective DPS when it counts.
Iron Will math comparison vs OP, @ level 100
NOTE: The purpose of this section is simply to show the relative importance of Iron Will in each build.
Official Build
100% base spell dmg
+10% from shavs
+15% from quality on RF
+16% from Passive Tree
+30% doryani's invitation
(+98% Iron Will)
* 1.3 Pain Attunement
* (1.59 * 1.26) Righteous Fire [augmented by Inner Force & Athleticism]
-------------------
= 700% increased spell dmg with Iron Will
= 445% increased spell dmg without Iron Will (37% damage reduction)
This Build
100% base spell dmg
+10% from shavs
+30% doryani's invitation
+223% from Passive Tree
+62% from shield [will vary depending on your shield]
+98% Iron Will
* 1.3 Pain Attunement
-------------------
= 680% increased spell dmg with Iron Will
= 553% increased spell dmg without Iron Will (19% damage reduction)
2 Conclusions can be drawn from the above: 1) While this build merely achieves parity with OP when Iron Will is used, this build is noticeably superior when Life Leech is used (i.e. when Iron Will is not). 2) Because of #1 and also because so much of the Passive Tree damage is specifically Lightning, we can revisit using Lightning Penetration instead of Iron Will as a more optimal source of DPS.
DPS superiority: Lightning Penetration
As per above, this build is not nearly as dependent on Iron Will. A decent amount of its +damage nodes are also specific to lightning. Thus, it turns out that Lightning Penetration winds up being a superior option to use in place of Iron Will.
Against 0% resist enemies, Lightning Penetration results in DPS about the same as Iron Will. When it matters most - against overcapped enemies/bosses - Lightning Penetration results in a whopping 30% more DPS than Iron Will.
Screenshot w/Level 19 q20 Lightning Penetration
Lightning Penetration vs Iron Will Math
We simply need to determine the damage that Arc and Discharge each do, and add them individually. This will tell us how much damage is done every time Mjolner procs, which is what we care about. Note that we need to calculate the Lightning Damage aspect of Discharge separately since only that aspect penetrates.
Scenario A: 0% resist enemy, Lightning Penetration ~= Iron Will [arc + discharge] = [total]
Iron Will (see screenshots in DPS comparison section above)
(((161+3173)/2)*1.02) + (((2519+3779)/2)+((2305+3422)/2)+((477+9101)/2)*1.02) = 11017 DPS/proc
The gear here is pretty straightforward if you've read the OP. The gear itself is basically the same except for the use of an ES/Spell Damage shield instead of RotP.
Gem Setup
You want a gem setup very similar to the OP, but with a few key differences. First, a corrupt Meginord's Vise with either Elemental Weakness or Temporal Chains is used in replacement of a 6L with curse on hit. As such, 6L Shavs is not strictly necessary.
Auras are placed in the chest and Herald of Ice is added to the OP's gem setup, which frees up a 4L (in this case, the boots), to enable a level 1 CWDT + Warlord's Mark + Increased AoE setup. Vaal Discipline is placed in this link, as well (though it is not triggered by CWDT).
Herald of Ice is mostly a novelty gem; you could place a level 1 / 20% Arctic Armour to get some move speed if you can sustain the regen, or use a Portal gem, if you don't want to use Herald of Ice.
Some thoughts on Uber Atziri & Energy Shield
For those of you who are more comfortable around the 7K ES mark, but don't have any BiS gear to get there, here is an alternative Level 95 Tree that doesn't sacrifice too much DPS but will get your ES to 7000+ with gear equivalent to mine.
I've seen a lot of discussion about Uber Atziri and "can this build do her?"; I personally have no interest in Atziri farming, but I think that if you got the BiS gear and used this modified passive tree to get away from shock nodes (Atziri cannot be shocked), you'd be good to go - for just a little DPS sacrifice, you would get around 9k+ ES if using BiS items.
I kind of doubt that this variant of the build is Uber viable without any of the BiS gear, but I don't know.
Thanks for putting so much time and effort into providing an strong alternative to OP's RF build. As a newer player I got two questions.
1. Is Herald of Ice actually superior to Haste or do you simply not have the ressources to have another 60% aura running? Just saw that you don't have the dex to use high lvl haste.
2. Why are you trying to avoid Blood Magic Keystone? You take 3 reduced Mana Reserved nodes instead of just investing 2 points into getting BM + Mortal Conviction. Are the 2 auras you are running on BM even sufficient to put you to low life?
IGN: @forecore
Last edited by forecore#1668 on Sep 15, 2014, 6:15:20 AM
Here you go folks... after some experimenting, testing, and math, I can confirm that the following variant is definitively superior to the "official" build for mapping. Official build is likely better for Atziri/Uber Atziri.
TL;DR --> more DPS, equal or better survivability, does not require Shavronne's Revelation or Blood Magic.
Pros & Cons vs Official build
Pros
* 30% more DPS vs capped/overcapped enemies and bosses; all map bosses die much more quickly!
* Higher survivability through use of dual curse, high ES shield, Vaal Discipline, and higher DPS if using Life Leech gem
* Half Regen maps are EZ mode, and No Regen maps are more easily doable
* Can more easily do elemental reflect maps
* Does not use Shavronne's Revelation, does not require the hassle of using the Blood Magic keystone.
* Can run just as well with a 5L Shavronne's Wrappings as with a 6L (only lose a couple % DPS with lack of Herald of Ice)
* Gets to keep Dream Fragments, which prevents Freeze and helps with mana regeneration.
Cons
* Cannot do Blood Magic Maps
* Does not get the RF burning damage against enemies right near you
* Have to Chrome your Mjolner if you want to swap in Life Leech gem (BBR is easy to get, though)
* Need to acquire a Meginord's Vise corrupted w/Temp Chains or Elemental Weakness on Hit, which may be difficult to get.
* This is Witch/Scion only. Marauder is sitting on a fairly massive 6 point disadvantage. Sorry, Marauders :(
Survivability/Defense
This build has FIVE main advantages over the "official" build in terms of survivability: First, equal or superior ES can be achieved without needing as much passive investment:
Because this build does not make any attempt to use Righteous Fire, Rise of the Phoenix is not needed. This allows the use of a high ES shield with Spell Damage, such as this:
There is flexibility here depending on your wealth. If you don't have 20-30 exalts to buy a shield like the above, you can sacrifice as needed either on the ES or Spell Damage until you find a shield in your price range.
With my gear and tree (below), I am at 6200 ES, which is comparable to what is achieved in the "official" build, but with much less passive investment in ES nodes.
Screenshot
Second, greater elemental resistance is achieved by taking the flask nodes in the witch tree:
This provides an additional +3 elemental resistance when your flask is up, which results in taking 40% less elemental damage during flask uptime.
This also means that when using Saffell's Frame for Elemental Reflect maps, you achieve 100% lightning resist during flask uptime and take zero damage from reflect.
Third, this build also has the option of using 2 defensive curses, and is not as dependent on the Life Leech gem for leeching life due to the use of Warlord's Mark:
Temporal Chains on Hit is used from the gloves, and Warlord's Mark is used alongside a level 1 CWDT gem. You have your choice of trying for Temp Chains on hit (defense) or Elemental Weakness on hit (offense) in the gloves. Warlord's Mark grants a significant amount of Life Leech from any enemies who are damaging you, and it removes the need to use the Life Leech gem.
Fourth, this build achieves significantly higher DPS when Life Leech is used instead of Iron Will compared to the official build
See math below in DPS section & Iron Will comparison for exact details, but this means that if you do choose to use Life Leech as your support gem, you get more DPS and thus more survivability as well from the extra leech.
Fifth and finally, this build, by using an alternative gem setup, allows for the inclusion of Vaal Discipline.
Vaal Discipline is an effective 'panic switch' to hit if you get in trouble or need a boost vs a particularly difficult boss. It's particularly effective if you ever get in trouble with nasty damage-over-time effects (corrupting blood when your flask is down / thena moga in vulnerability map / etc).
---------------------------------
For those with much more wealth than I have, here's the BiS gear and what it would get you:
With those 3 items, you would have:
+~25 chaos resist instead of -60 (with flask up, you would be almost at capped chaos res)
+~1550 total Energy Shield (bringing you up to ~7700)
+10% move speed
Offense/DPS
DPS comparisons with OP & Proof of DPS parity without Righteous Fire
3 Notes: 1) My screenshots are of level 20 Discharge & Arc; I do not have level 21 gems as in the OP. To make an accurate comparison, you must either multiply my DPS by 1.099 or OP's DPS by 0.91. 2) OP's screenshots are outdated (from pre-1.2), mine are from 1.2. This accounts for a lot of the difference between OP's screenshot for Arc and my screenshot for Arc (post-nerf in 1.2). To make an accurate comparison, an additional 1.15 multiplier is made to compensate for the ~15% nerf made to Arc. 3) All Screenshots were obtained with the gear listed below in the gear section, and with this level 93 passive tree.
With that in mind, here's my screenshots of Discharge and Arc (supported by Iron Will, same as OP):
Discharge
Arc
Multiplying by 1.099 to compare to OP's level 21 gems gives: OP Discharge = 12639.5 Dmg/cast
My Discharge (if level 21) = 11870.8 Dmg/cast
OP Arc (pre-nerf) = 2495 Dmg/cast
My Arc (if level 21 & adjusted to pre-nerf levels) = 2319 Dmg/cast
CONCLUSION: This variant of the build, if using the same DPS setup (Discharge/Arc/Iron Will), achieves parity with the official variant as in the OP. At level 93, the DPS is about 6-7% less. By level 100, the DPS will likely be a few % more. Such a difference is too small to be noticed either way. For all intents and purposes, they're the same.
HOWEVER, in reality, this variant is superior in DPS to the official build due to how the DPS is achieved. The TL;DR version is this: Because this build achieves its DPS primarily from ADDITIVE sources (the passive tree) instead of MULTIPLICATIVE ones (Righteous Fire), Iron Will can be swapped out to achieve higher effective DPS when it counts.
Iron Will math comparison vs OP, @ level 100
NOTE: The purpose of this section is simply to show the relative importance of Iron Will in each build.
Official Build
100% base spell dmg
+10% from shavs
+15% from quality on RF
+16% from Passive Tree
+30% doryani's invitation
(+98% Iron Will)
* 1.3 Pain Attunement
* (1.59 * 1.26) Righteous Fire [augmented by Inner Force & Athleticism]
-------------------
= 700% increased spell dmg with Iron Will
= 445% increased spell dmg without Iron Will (37% damage reduction)
This Build
100% base spell dmg
+10% from shavs
+30% doryani's invitation
+223% from Passive Tree
+62% from shield [will vary depending on your shield]
+98% Iron Will
* 1.3 Pain Attunement
-------------------
= 680% increased spell dmg with Iron Will
= 553% increased spell dmg without Iron Will (19% damage reduction)
2 Conclusions can be drawn from the above: 1) While this build merely achieves parity with OP when Iron Will is used, this build is noticeably superior when Life Leech is used (i.e. when Iron Will is not). 2) Because of #1 and also because so much of the Passive Tree damage is specifically Lightning, we can revisit using Lightning Penetration instead of Iron Will as a more optimal source of DPS.
DPS superiority: Lightning Penetration
As per above, this build is not nearly as dependent on Iron Will. A decent amount of its +damage nodes are also specific to lightning. Thus, it turns out that Lightning Penetration winds up being a superior option to use in place of Iron Will.
Against 0% resist enemies, Lightning Penetration results in DPS about the same as Iron Will. When it matters most - against overcapped enemies/bosses - Lightning Penetration results in a whopping 30% more DPS than Iron Will.
Screenshot w/Level 19 q20 Lightning Penetration
Lightning Penetration vs Iron Will Math
We simply need to determine the damage that Arc and Discharge each do, and add them individually. This will tell us how much damage is done every time Mjolner procs, which is what we care about. Note that we need to calculate the Lightning Damage aspect of Discharge separately since only that aspect penetrates.
Scenario A: 0% resist enemy, Lightning Penetration ~= Iron Will [arc + discharge] = [total]
Iron Will (see screenshots in DPS comparison section above)
(((161+3173)/2)*1.02) + (((2519+3779)/2)+((2305+3422)/2)+((477+9101)/2)*1.02) = 11017 DPS/proc
The gear here is pretty straightforward if you've read the OP. The gear itself is basically the same except for the use of an ES/Spell Damage shield instead of RotP.
Gem Setup
You want a gem setup very similar to the OP, but with a few key differences. First, a corrupt Meginord's Vise with either Elemental Weakness or Temporal Chains is used in replacement of a 6L with curse on hit. As such, 6L Shavs is not strictly necessary.
Auras are placed in the chest and Herald of Ice is added to the OP's gem setup, which frees up a 4L (in this case, the boots), to enable a level 1 CWDT + Warlord's Mark + Increased AoE setup. Vaal Discipline is placed in this link, as well (though it is not triggered by CWDT).
Herald of Ice is mostly a novelty gem; you could place a level 1 / 20% Arctic Armour to get some move speed if you can sustain the regen, or use a Portal gem, if you don't want to use Herald of Ice.
Some thoughts on Uber Atziri & Energy Shield
For those of you who are more comfortable around the 7K ES mark, but don't have any BiS gear to get there, here is an alternative Level 95 Tree that doesn't sacrifice too much DPS but will get your ES to 7000+ with gear equivalent to mine.
I've seen a lot of discussion about Uber Atziri and "can this build do her?"; I personally have no interest in Atziri farming, but I think that if you got the BiS gear and used this modified passive tree to get away from shock nodes (Atziri cannot be shocked), you'd be good to go - for just a little DPS sacrifice, you would get around 9k+ ES if using BiS items.
I kind of doubt that this variant of the build is Uber viable without any of the BiS gear, but I don't know.
Thank you for putting this together. I already suspected something like that with the tree changes, but I couldn't test / try it out myself since I don't have the gear lying around anymore.
If you don't mind I will update the OP accordingly when I find the time. (I think I found a few more possible optimizations to your approach, but I don't really have the time to compile them here. Will tell you more when I am through with testing with a friend. :) )
Here you go folks... after some experimenting, testing, and math, I can confirm that the following variant is definitively superior to the "official" build for mapping. Official build is likely better for Atziri/Uber Atziri.
TL;DR --> more DPS, equal or better survivability, does not require Shavronne's Revelation or Blood Magic.
Pros & Cons vs Official build
Pros
* 30% more DPS vs capped/overcapped enemies and bosses; all map bosses die much more quickly!
* Higher survivability through use of dual curse, high ES shield, Vaal Discipline, and higher DPS if using Life Leech gem
* Half Regen maps are EZ mode, and No Regen maps are more easily doable
* Can more easily do elemental reflect maps
* Does not use Shavronne's Revelation, does not require the hassle of using the Blood Magic keystone.
* Can run just as well with a 5L Shavronne's Wrappings as with a 6L (only lose a couple % DPS with lack of Herald of Ice)
* Gets to keep Dream Fragments, which prevents Freeze and helps with mana regeneration.
Cons
* Cannot do Blood Magic Maps
* Does not get the RF burning damage against enemies right near you
* Have to Chrome your Mjolner if you want to swap in Life Leech gem (BBR is easy to get, though)
* Need to acquire a Meginord's Vise corrupted w/Temp Chains or Elemental Weakness on Hit, which may be difficult to get.
* This is Witch/Scion only. Marauder is sitting on a fairly massive 6 point disadvantage. Sorry, Marauders :(
Survivability/Defense
This build has FIVE main advantages over the "official" build in terms of survivability: First, equal or superior ES can be achieved without needing as much passive investment:
Because this build does not make any attempt to use Righteous Fire, Rise of the Phoenix is not needed. This allows the use of a high ES shield with Spell Damage, such as this:
There is flexibility here depending on your wealth. If you don't have 20-30 exalts to buy a shield like the above, you can sacrifice as needed either on the ES or Spell Damage until you find a shield in your price range.
With my gear and tree (below), I am at 6200 ES, which is comparable to what is achieved in the "official" build, but with much less passive investment in ES nodes.
Screenshot
Second, greater elemental resistance is achieved by taking the flask nodes in the witch tree:
This provides an additional +3 elemental resistance when your flask is up, which results in taking 40% less elemental damage during flask uptime.
This also means that when using Saffell's Frame for Elemental Reflect maps, you achieve 100% lightning resist during flask uptime and take zero damage from reflect.
Third, this build also has the option of using 2 defensive curses, and is not as dependent on the Life Leech gem for leeching life due to the use of Warlord's Mark:
Temporal Chains on Hit is used from the gloves, and Warlord's Mark is used alongside a level 1 CWDT gem. You have your choice of trying for Temp Chains on hit (defense) or Elemental Weakness on hit (offense) in the gloves. Warlord's Mark grants a significant amount of Life Leech from any enemies who are damaging you, and it removes the need to use the Life Leech gem.
Fourth, this build achieves significantly higher DPS when Life Leech is used instead of Iron Will compared to the official build
See math below in DPS section & Iron Will comparison for exact details, but this means that if you do choose to use Life Leech as your support gem, you get more DPS and thus more survivability as well from the extra leech.
Fifth and finally, this build, by using an alternative gem setup, allows for the inclusion of Vaal Discipline.
Vaal Discipline is an effective 'panic switch' to hit if you get in trouble or need a boost vs a particularly difficult boss. It's particularly effective if you ever get in trouble with nasty damage-over-time effects (corrupting blood when your flask is down / thena moga in vulnerability map / etc).
---------------------------------
For those with much more wealth than I have, here's the BiS gear and what it would get you:
With those 3 items, you would have:
+~25 chaos resist instead of -60 (with flask up, you would be almost at capped chaos res)
+~1550 total Energy Shield (bringing you up to ~7700)
+10% move speed
Offense/DPS
DPS comparisons with OP & Proof of DPS parity without Righteous Fire
3 Notes: 1) My screenshots are of level 20 Discharge & Arc; I do not have level 21 gems as in the OP. To make an accurate comparison, you must either multiply my DPS by 1.099 or OP's DPS by 0.91. 2) OP's screenshots are outdated (from pre-1.2), mine are from 1.2. This accounts for a lot of the difference between OP's screenshot for Arc and my screenshot for Arc (post-nerf in 1.2). To make an accurate comparison, an additional 1.15 multiplier is made to compensate for the ~15% nerf made to Arc. 3) All Screenshots were obtained with the gear listed below in the gear section, and with this level 93 passive tree.
With that in mind, here's my screenshots of Discharge and Arc (supported by Iron Will, same as OP):
Discharge
Arc
Multiplying by 1.099 to compare to OP's level 21 gems gives: OP Discharge = 12639.5 Dmg/cast
My Discharge (if level 21) = 11870.8 Dmg/cast
OP Arc (pre-nerf) = 2495 Dmg/cast
My Arc (if level 21 & adjusted to pre-nerf levels) = 2319 Dmg/cast
CONCLUSION: This variant of the build, if using the same DPS setup (Discharge/Arc/Iron Will), achieves parity with the official variant as in the OP. At level 93, the DPS is about 6-7% less. By level 100, the DPS will likely be a few % more. Such a difference is too small to be noticed either way. For all intents and purposes, they're the same.
HOWEVER, in reality, this variant is superior in DPS to the official build due to how the DPS is achieved. The TL;DR version is this: Because this build achieves its DPS primarily from ADDITIVE sources (the passive tree) instead of MULTIPLICATIVE ones (Righteous Fire), Iron Will can be swapped out to achieve higher effective DPS when it counts.
Iron Will math comparison vs OP, @ level 100
NOTE: The purpose of this section is simply to show the relative importance of Iron Will in each build.
Official Build
100% base spell dmg
+10% from shavs
+15% from quality on RF
+16% from Passive Tree
+30% doryani's invitation
(+98% Iron Will)
* 1.3 Pain Attunement
* (1.59 * 1.26) Righteous Fire [augmented by Inner Force & Athleticism]
-------------------
= 700% increased spell dmg with Iron Will
= 445% increased spell dmg without Iron Will (37% damage reduction)
This Build
100% base spell dmg
+10% from shavs
+30% doryani's invitation
+223% from Passive Tree
+62% from shield [will vary depending on your shield]
+98% Iron Will
* 1.3 Pain Attunement
-------------------
= 680% increased spell dmg with Iron Will
= 553% increased spell dmg without Iron Will (19% damage reduction)
2 Conclusions can be drawn from the above: 1) While this build merely achieves parity with OP when Iron Will is used, this build is noticeably superior when Life Leech is used (i.e. when Iron Will is not). 2) Because of #1 and also because so much of the Passive Tree damage is specifically Lightning, we can revisit using Lightning Penetration instead of Iron Will as a more optimal source of DPS.
DPS superiority: Lightning Penetration
As per above, this build is not nearly as dependent on Iron Will. A decent amount of its +damage nodes are also specific to lightning. Thus, it turns out that Lightning Penetration winds up being a superior option to use in place of Iron Will.
Against 0% resist enemies, Lightning Penetration results in DPS about the same as Iron Will. When it matters most - against overcapped enemies/bosses - Lightning Penetration results in a whopping 30% more DPS than Iron Will.
Screenshot w/Level 19 q20 Lightning Penetration
Lightning Penetration vs Iron Will Math
We simply need to determine the damage that Arc and Discharge each do, and add them individually. This will tell us how much damage is done every time Mjolner procs, which is what we care about. Note that we need to calculate the Lightning Damage aspect of Discharge separately since only that aspect penetrates.
Scenario A: 0% resist enemy, Lightning Penetration ~= Iron Will [arc + discharge] = [total]
Iron Will (see screenshots in DPS comparison section above)
(((161+3173)/2)*1.02) + (((2519+3779)/2)+((2305+3422)/2)+((477+9101)/2)*1.02) = 11017 DPS/proc
The gear here is pretty straightforward if you've read the OP. The gear itself is basically the same except for the use of an ES/Spell Damage shield instead of RotP.
Gem Setup
You want a gem setup very similar to the OP, but with a few key differences. First, a corrupt Meginord's Vise with either Elemental Weakness or Temporal Chains is used in replacement of a 6L with curse on hit. As such, 6L Shavs is not strictly necessary.
Auras are placed in the chest and Herald of Ice is added to the OP's gem setup, which frees up a 4L (in this case, the boots), to enable a level 1 CWDT + Warlord's Mark + Increased AoE setup. Vaal Discipline is placed in this link, as well (though it is not triggered by CWDT).
Herald of Ice is mostly a novelty gem; you could place a level 1 / 20% Arctic Armour to get some move speed if you can sustain the regen, or use a Portal gem, if you don't want to use Herald of Ice.
Some thoughts on Uber Atziri & Energy Shield
For those of you who are more comfortable around the 7K ES mark, but don't have any BiS gear to get there, here is an alternative Level 95 Tree that doesn't sacrifice too much DPS but will get your ES to 7000+ with gear equivalent to mine.
I've seen a lot of discussion about Uber Atziri and "can this build do her?"; I personally have no interest in Atziri farming, but I think that if you got the BiS gear and used this modified passive tree to get away from shock nodes (Atziri cannot be shocked), you'd be good to go - for just a little DPS sacrifice, you would get around 9k+ ES if using BiS items.
I kind of doubt that this variant of the build is Uber viable without any of the BiS gear, but I don't know.
Tried this, but the mana regen is just too low to sustain hittings mobs. I had 28.8 mana/sec regen and my molten strike takes 20 mana per cast with a 0.17 attack time = 120 mana/sec and LS takes even more. How do you do it?
Here you go folks... after some experimenting, testing, and math, I can confirm that the following variant is definitively superior to the "official" build for mapping. Official build is likely better for Atziri/Uber Atziri.
TL;DR --> more DPS, equal or better survivability, does not require Shavronne's Revelation or Blood Magic.
Pros & Cons vs Official build
Pros
* 30% more DPS vs capped/overcapped enemies and bosses; all map bosses die much more quickly!
* Higher survivability through use of dual curse, high ES shield, Vaal Discipline, and higher DPS if using Life Leech gem
* Half Regen maps are EZ mode, and No Regen maps are more easily doable
* Can more easily do elemental reflect maps
* Does not use Shavronne's Revelation, does not require the hassle of using the Blood Magic keystone.
* Can run just as well with a 5L Shavronne's Wrappings as with a 6L (only lose a couple % DPS with lack of Herald of Ice)
* Gets to keep Dream Fragments, which prevents Freeze and helps with mana regeneration.
Cons
* Cannot do Blood Magic Maps
* Does not get the RF burning damage against enemies right near you
* Have to Chrome your Mjolner if you want to swap in Life Leech gem (BBR is easy to get, though)
* Need to acquire a Meginord's Vise corrupted w/Temp Chains or Elemental Weakness on Hit, which may be difficult to get.
* This is Witch/Scion only. Marauder is sitting on a fairly massive 6 point disadvantage. Sorry, Marauders :(
Survivability/Defense
This build has FIVE main advantages over the "official" build in terms of survivability: First, equal or superior ES can be achieved without needing as much passive investment:
Because this build does not make any attempt to use Righteous Fire, Rise of the Phoenix is not needed. This allows the use of a high ES shield with Spell Damage, such as this:
There is flexibility here depending on your wealth. If you don't have 20-30 exalts to buy a shield like the above, you can sacrifice as needed either on the ES or Spell Damage until you find a shield in your price range.
With my gear and tree (below), I am at 6200 ES, which is comparable to what is achieved in the "official" build, but with much less passive investment in ES nodes.
Screenshot
Second, greater elemental resistance is achieved by taking the flask nodes in the witch tree:
This provides an additional +3 elemental resistance when your flask is up, which results in taking 40% less elemental damage during flask uptime.
This also means that when using Saffell's Frame for Elemental Reflect maps, you achieve 100% lightning resist during flask uptime and take zero damage from reflect.
Third, this build also has the option of using 2 defensive curses, and is not as dependent on the Life Leech gem for leeching life due to the use of Warlord's Mark:
Temporal Chains on Hit is used from the gloves, and Warlord's Mark is used alongside a level 1 CWDT gem. You have your choice of trying for Temp Chains on hit (defense) or Elemental Weakness on hit (offense) in the gloves. Warlord's Mark grants a significant amount of Life Leech from any enemies who are damaging you, and it removes the need to use the Life Leech gem.
Fourth, this build achieves significantly higher DPS when Life Leech is used instead of Iron Will compared to the official build
See math below in DPS section & Iron Will comparison for exact details, but this means that if you do choose to use Life Leech as your support gem, you get more DPS and thus more survivability as well from the extra leech.
Fifth and finally, this build, by using an alternative gem setup, allows for the inclusion of Vaal Discipline.
Vaal Discipline is an effective 'panic switch' to hit if you get in trouble or need a boost vs a particularly difficult boss. It's particularly effective if you ever get in trouble with nasty damage-over-time effects (corrupting blood when your flask is down / thena moga in vulnerability map / etc).
---------------------------------
For those with much more wealth than I have, here's the BiS gear and what it would get you:
With those 3 items, you would have:
+~25 chaos resist instead of -60 (with flask up, you would be almost at capped chaos res)
+~1550 total Energy Shield (bringing you up to ~7700)
+10% move speed
Offense/DPS
DPS comparisons with OP & Proof of DPS parity without Righteous Fire
3 Notes: 1) My screenshots are of level 20 Discharge & Arc; I do not have level 21 gems as in the OP. To make an accurate comparison, you must either multiply my DPS by 1.099 or OP's DPS by 0.91. 2) OP's screenshots are outdated (from pre-1.2), mine are from 1.2. This accounts for a lot of the difference between OP's screenshot for Arc and my screenshot for Arc (post-nerf in 1.2). To make an accurate comparison, an additional 1.15 multiplier is made to compensate for the ~15% nerf made to Arc. 3) All Screenshots were obtained with the gear listed below in the gear section, and with this level 93 passive tree.
With that in mind, here's my screenshots of Discharge and Arc (supported by Iron Will, same as OP):
Discharge
Arc
Multiplying by 1.099 to compare to OP's level 21 gems gives: OP Discharge = 12639.5 Dmg/cast
My Discharge (if level 21) = 11870.8 Dmg/cast
OP Arc (pre-nerf) = 2495 Dmg/cast
My Arc (if level 21 & adjusted to pre-nerf levels) = 2319 Dmg/cast
CONCLUSION: This variant of the build, if using the same DPS setup (Discharge/Arc/Iron Will), achieves parity with the official variant as in the OP. At level 93, the DPS is about 6-7% less. By level 100, the DPS will likely be a few % more. Such a difference is too small to be noticed either way. For all intents and purposes, they're the same.
HOWEVER, in reality, this variant is superior in DPS to the official build due to how the DPS is achieved. The TL;DR version is this: Because this build achieves its DPS primarily from ADDITIVE sources (the passive tree) instead of MULTIPLICATIVE ones (Righteous Fire), Iron Will can be swapped out to achieve higher effective DPS when it counts.
Iron Will math comparison vs OP, @ level 100
NOTE: The purpose of this section is simply to show the relative importance of Iron Will in each build.
Official Build
100% base spell dmg
+10% from shavs
+15% from quality on RF
+16% from Passive Tree
+30% doryani's invitation
(+98% Iron Will)
* 1.3 Pain Attunement
* (1.59 * 1.26) Righteous Fire [augmented by Inner Force & Athleticism]
-------------------
= 700% increased spell dmg with Iron Will
= 445% increased spell dmg without Iron Will (37% damage reduction)
This Build
100% base spell dmg
+10% from shavs
+30% doryani's invitation
+223% from Passive Tree
+62% from shield [will vary depending on your shield]
+98% Iron Will
* 1.3 Pain Attunement
-------------------
= 680% increased spell dmg with Iron Will
= 553% increased spell dmg without Iron Will (19% damage reduction)
2 Conclusions can be drawn from the above: 1) While this build merely achieves parity with OP when Iron Will is used, this build is noticeably superior when Life Leech is used (i.e. when Iron Will is not). 2) Because of #1 and also because so much of the Passive Tree damage is specifically Lightning, we can revisit using Lightning Penetration instead of Iron Will as a more optimal source of DPS.
DPS superiority: Lightning Penetration
As per above, this build is not nearly as dependent on Iron Will. A decent amount of its +damage nodes are also specific to lightning. Thus, it turns out that Lightning Penetration winds up being a superior option to use in place of Iron Will.
Against 0% resist enemies, Lightning Penetration results in DPS about the same as Iron Will. When it matters most - against overcapped enemies/bosses - Lightning Penetration results in a whopping 30% more DPS than Iron Will.
Screenshot w/Level 19 q20 Lightning Penetration
Lightning Penetration vs Iron Will Math
We simply need to determine the damage that Arc and Discharge each do, and add them individually. This will tell us how much damage is done every time Mjolner procs, which is what we care about. Note that we need to calculate the Lightning Damage aspect of Discharge separately since only that aspect penetrates.
Scenario A: 0% resist enemy, Lightning Penetration ~= Iron Will [arc + discharge] = [total]
Iron Will (see screenshots in DPS comparison section above)
(((161+3173)/2)*1.02) + (((2519+3779)/2)+((2305+3422)/2)+((477+9101)/2)*1.02) = 11017 DPS/proc
The gear here is pretty straightforward if you've read the OP. The gear itself is basically the same except for the use of an ES/Spell Damage shield instead of RotP.
Gem Setup
You want a gem setup very similar to the OP, but with a few key differences. First, a corrupt Meginord's Vise with either Elemental Weakness or Temporal Chains is used in replacement of a 6L with curse on hit. As such, 6L Shavs is not strictly necessary.
Auras are placed in the chest and Herald of Ice is added to the OP's gem setup, which frees up a 4L (in this case, the boots), to enable a level 1 CWDT + Warlord's Mark + Increased AoE setup. Vaal Discipline is placed in this link, as well (though it is not triggered by CWDT).
Herald of Ice is mostly a novelty gem; you could place a level 1 / 20% Arctic Armour to get some move speed if you can sustain the regen, or use a Portal gem, if you don't want to use Herald of Ice.
Some thoughts on Uber Atziri & Energy Shield
For those of you who are more comfortable around the 7K ES mark, but don't have any BiS gear to get there, here is an alternative Level 95 Tree that doesn't sacrifice too much DPS but will get your ES to 7000+ with gear equivalent to mine.
I've seen a lot of discussion about Uber Atziri and "can this build do her?"; I personally have no interest in Atziri farming, but I think that if you got the BiS gear and used this modified passive tree to get away from shock nodes (Atziri cannot be shocked), you'd be good to go - for just a little DPS sacrifice, you would get around 9k+ ES if using BiS items.
I kind of doubt that this variant of the build is Uber viable without any of the BiS gear, but I don't know.
Tried this, but the mana regen is just too low to sustain hittings mobs. I had 28.8 mana/sec regen and my molten strike takes 20 mana per cast with a 0.17 attack time = 120 mana/sec and LS takes even more. How do you do it?
My regen isn't quite enough on its own to sustain attacking, but the mana leech on Romira's Banquet enables me to sustain attacking so long as I am hitting something. I have around 120 mana left after aura reservaction, and Lightning Strike costs 30 mana, and I get about 12-14 attacks before needing to pause and regen in the case where I'm not hitting anything.
For what it's worth, my mana regen is similar to yours; 29.5. Are you using the same gear/gem setup I am? Are you doing something different with aura reservation such that you only have 30-50 mana left after casting auras?
The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard
The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard
Last edited by tackle70#1293 on Sep 14, 2014, 7:56:06 AM
