25-Linked Automatic 24/7 Cast To Immortality

click on your char screen on top left of this site, with your char portrait says your char name and level class. you should see your inventory menu just like in game and list of your character on the left. if you click on your item whether the equipped one or from the inventory/stash, it should automatically link it to your post content while writing/editing a post.

as for skill tree, just click the passive tree tab with the greyed text and it should direct you to passive tree screen, and you could just copy paste the tree link.
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estu87 wrote:
click on your char screen on top left of this site, with your char portrait says your char name and level class. you should see your inventory menu just like in game and list of your character on the left. if you click on your item whether the equipped one or from the inventory/stash, it should automatically link it to your post content while writing/editing a post.

as for skill tree, just click the passive tree tab with the greyed text and it should direct you to passive tree screen, and you could just copy paste the tree link.


thx, will test it wright now.


my 20k mana per second heal items:
Last edited by Tommyvv#4596 on Apr 21, 2014, 11:01:08 AM
Awesome science :) love the theory!
My guides
HC melee ranger: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/507976
HC RF scion: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/666667
HC RF marauder: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/842382
RF resource guide: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/832331
Bumping this,

I've done a lot of experimentation and theorycrafting and I was wondering your thoughts on a few points:

As far as I can tell, there is no way to self-sustain an endless stream of CWDT procs, especially vs a boss. Based on some calculations, you'd have to deal ~450 tooltip damage to a single mob with a lvl 7 GC and a lvl 8 EK while both the boss and yourself were cursed with high level vulnerability and you were cursed with high level punishment. Both you and the boss having 0 armor.

1) There may be a creative way around the limit but if there is I haven't discovered it yet. You'd need ~800% damage bonus to do enough physical damage to self-sustain (on average) which isn't possible with normal means. I'm using crit as a damage boost at the moment but still not there yet. Another posibility is a tiered CWDT system, but the math is too complex to figure out at the moment (not to mention limited gem slots). I belive this is intentional by the Devs, If a method is discovered to infinite self-damage-cast I expect it will be patched very quickly.

2) Supposing you did find a way to sustain infinite casting, you would likely die. With your current setup, the only reason you survive is the abundance of other non-physical spells hitting the mobs. This solution is needed because you only get 16 HP back per hit. In order to really shine there needs to be a way to use life leech rather than LGoH. I'm still working out the math on how to integrate life leech. The more damage each spell does, the less signifigant LGoH from Cybil's Paw is. Getting rid of Cybil's Paw would be great because it would unlock even higher damage, and/or the ability to use a shield.

3) speaking of surviving... There is no way to survive at end-game without maxed resists and some form of damage mitigation. MoM is a great way to give yourself mitigation without impacting your reflected damage but there needs to be more in order to really do higher maps well. I suspect evasion or block will be the choice because armor and AA kill the reflected damage. This is the primary reason that i'm trying to self-sustain CWDT casting as much as possible because if you rely on mobs doing massive damage to you to do damage then you will eventually just end up dying.

4) Other Experimental Idea: Righteous Fire to boost damage



All that being said, even without self-sustained infinite CWDT procs this build is very effective for me at lvl 57 currently. Self-casting a high level glacial cascade (with only life leech linked to it) is enough to send off a flurry of CWDT casts that pretty much destroy most regular mobs instnantly. My only problem is survivability once my mana runs out, I'm using the MoM chest so 40% of my damage hits my mana and pretty much obliterates it. Right now i'm using a completely different build than the OP, and different gem setup. It's just about as effective as your typical self-caster but If I can solve some of the 3 issues above I think it will faceroll. If I can manage self-sustained CWDT casting then it will be beyond OP and will be nerfed :)
IGN: OldManBalls (Warbands)
"
demivion wrote:
Bumping this,

I've done a lot of experimentation and theorycrafting and I was wondering your thoughts on a few points:

As far as I can tell, there is no way to self-sustain an endless stream of CWDT procs, especially vs a boss. Based on some calculations, you'd have to deal ~450 tooltip damage to a single mob with a lvl 7 GC and a lvl 8 EK while both the boss and yourself were cursed with high level vulnerability and you were cursed with high level punishment. Both you and the boss having 0 armor.

1) There may be a creative way around the limit but if there is I haven't discovered it yet. You'd need ~800% damage bonus to do enough physical damage to self-sustain (on average) which isn't possible with normal means. I'm using crit as a damage boost at the moment but still not there yet. Another posibility is a tiered CWDT system, but the math is too complex to figure out at the moment (not to mention limited gem slots). I belive this is intentional by the Devs, If a method is discovered to infinite self-damage-cast I expect it will be patched very quickly.

2) Supposing you did find a way to sustain infinite casting, you would likely die. With your current setup, the only reason you survive is the abundance of other non-physical spells hitting the mobs. This solution is needed because you only get 16 HP back per hit. In order to really shine there needs to be a way to use life leech rather than LGoH. I'm still working out the math on how to integrate life leech. The more damage each spell does, the less signifigant LGoH from Cybil's Paw is. Getting rid of Cybil's Paw would be great because it would unlock even higher damage, and/or the ability to use a shield.

3) speaking of surviving... There is no way to survive at end-game without maxed resists and some form of damage mitigation. MoM is a great way to give yourself mitigation without impacting your reflected damage but there needs to be more in order to really do higher maps well. I suspect evasion or block will be the choice because armor and AA kill the reflected damage. This is the primary reason that i'm trying to self-sustain CWDT casting as much as possible because if you rely on mobs doing massive damage to you to do damage then you will eventually just end up dying.

4) Other Experimental Idea: Righteous Fire to boost damage



All that being said, even without self-sustained infinite CWDT procs this build is very effective for me at lvl 57 currently. Self-casting a high level glacial cascade (with only life leech linked to it) is enough to send off a flurry of CWDT casts that pretty much destroy most regular mobs instnantly. My only problem is survivability once my mana runs out, I'm using the MoM chest so 40% of my damage hits my mana and pretty much obliterates it. Right now i'm using a completely different build than the OP, and different gem setup. It's just about as effective as your typical self-caster but If I can solve some of the 3 issues above I think it will faceroll. If I can manage self-sustained CWDT casting then it will be beyond OP and will be nerfed :)


thx for post, I will try to answer as match as I can!

0) yes, the cwdt-physical damage spells, will not trigger the next cwdt-proc
(I made a failed build around this ones, assuming my cwdt damage triggers the next cwdt)
its the manual casted Cascade that does that
since it hits 3-6times vs big bosses, and you cast it 2 times per sec
even vs 1 target you ezzly get a 2-4 cwdt procs every second
the only problem is, that every cwdt proc, you take 440damage-MoM+heals = +/- 300life healed
and a boss hits you for 2k life drained,
makes you need to heal from manual casted cascade that trigger 440selfdamage (instead of 2k boss damage) to overheal the boss
MoM, makes heal very great, 1/0.7= 42.86%more effective LoH
temporal chains and things like icewall makes boss not hit you for over 2 seconds, makes you trigger cwdt-gems about 6-8times between the boss hits

1) like in 0)
the cwdt-physical damage spells, will not trigger the next cwdt-proc
(I made a failed build around this ones, assuming my cwdt damage triggers the next cwdt)
its the manual casted Cascade that does that+incoming monster damage

?I still need to test if cast when stunned physical damage can trigger cwdt procs?

I think this all have to do with the tempest shield reflect abuce, that have been patched ones?

2)

3) the resist, yes some boss is OP, like flameblast
and this lightning thron
and most enoying, this righteous fire monsters
but the rest is so dam ezz overtanked at -60resist (even double elemental bosses in a elemental weakniss map)
I would have hoped that I not needed resist at all
I still beleave I not need to max it to 75
the enfeeble+Mom = 100-27%-30% = 100*0.73*0.7 = 51.1%remaining damage
but yes, -60fire resist and then thouse nappy rf monsters, when other monsters not heal you

4) the damage is not realy a problem at all
if its not needed to trigger cwdt-phsysical-chainreactions (witch can not happen)

I can show you how to test that this not happens:
link cwdt-EK-EK
selfcurse punishment
proc a EK-cwdt
(you can even make sure that EK, have a 0.25+seconds delay before it hits target, not that it matters)
you see yourself loose 1 life, from the cwdt-EK
but the next EK will not be casted

if you manual casted a cascade vs monster when have cwdt-EK-EK
you will hit monster, trigger cwdt, cast EK, hit monster again, inflict 1 selfdamage via cascade, and trigger the next EK, all possible within 0.01second


atm, I am testing out ones again, multiple discharges-cwdt
and flickering strike
and voll's protector+terminus est
not yet find the benefits I seek from discharge (no lightning leech yet) just nice kickass damage


e/2
2) I mostly use only 1 gem of the same kind on my cwdt-links atm
so I have maximum loh income when take monster hits
and I not need to create myself, selfhit intervals smaller then 0.25sec
my new test gear, incl frenzy flickering 10aps, may change that ones again! to mabe 3 discharges, not sure yet.
Last edited by Tommyvv#4596 on Apr 23, 2014, 3:16:08 PM
Which kind of armour you are using? Could you please post your entire gears?

If I understand your build (it is a bit complicated... :) ), i think that this seems to fit quite well for you.



It is basically a 40%MoM

It also allows you to save a lot of 'road' up to the MoM passive, which you could use in a different way.
Roma timezone (Italy)
"
HellGauss wrote:
Which kind of armour you are using? Could you please post your entire gears?

If I understand your build (it is a bit complicated... :) ), i think that this seems to fit quite well for you.



It is basically a 40%MoM

It also allows you to save a lot of 'road' up to the MoM passive, which you could use in a different way.


yes its a nice armor,

but keep in mind, the mass amounths of mana lost
makes 40%MoM only be 40%MoM, if you also have 40%mana healed from damage taken goes to mana and mana regen combined.
aspecialy vs multiple targets, your cascade does 5-10times more damage then needed for the cwdt-trigger upkeep, makes you loose 5k mana in 1 sec

also keep in mind, the 2000%loh effectivniss from a 6-link (4gems*100%*5gmp)
if you make that a 5-link, it becomes 1500%loh effectivniss
I never created a 5-link myself yet! only a 4-link, I am kinda crafter noob, all my time goes into testing/teoriecrafting/currency needs for test items-mechanics

I kinda posted the items in post 1, bye name, not bye pictures

the ''waisted'' points to get to MoM-passive
are also a route to get life notes
and since 30-35%MoM is about max possible upkeep for damage taken as mana
I not wana invest into mana regen
since I not run artic armor
since I need to do selfdamage

so if you look at thease 3 combined informations about the MoM-armor, its not that great afterall, a lot of better alternatives available, and the 1extra socket from tabula, already provides more survival then the total MoM-armor
Last edited by Tommyvv#4596 on Apr 23, 2014, 5:21:10 PM
You can always make up for low resistances by getting some res passives and the bandit quest resist reward.

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