The Mysterious (and Costly) Case of Immortal Call.

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Gobla wrote:

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hissnail wrote:

And here I repeat my question: Unless Romira's doesn't apply to attacks like Spectral Throw?

I believe what they're saying is that Romira's does apply but it applies after CoC.

So Immortal Call is cast by CoC before Romira's is triggered and thus before any Endurance Charges are gained through Voll's.

But why is that the case? Why is not the Romira's/Voll's Devotion mechanic instant, happening right as Spectral Throw crits?

Also, you'd have to explain to me why we cheesed through insane maps and Poorjoys before coming across this problem.

(And after Gaia's death, he cheesed the second fight in SC too.)

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hissnail wrote:

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Gobla wrote:

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hissnail wrote:

And here I repeat my question: Unless Romira's doesn't apply to attacks like Spectral Throw?

I believe what they're saying is that Romira's does apply but it applies after CoC.

So Immortal Call is cast by CoC before Romira's is triggered and thus before any Endurance Charges are gained through Voll's.

But why is that the case? Why is not the Romira's/Voll's Devotion mechanic instant, happening right as Spectral Throw crits?

Also, you'd have to explain to me why we cheesed through insane maps and Poorjoys before coming across this problem.

(And after Gaia's death, he cheesed the second fight in SC too.)

it is instant...so is coc. they can't both be instant at the same time, one of them has to go first, and it's coc


and this game isn't dota 2 anyways. crits don't work on any pseudo rng or invisible counter like evade. they're fully random. and even if you were right and crits do work on prng or the way evade does? crit is checked twice, and the 2nd check against target evasion is confirmed to be completely random

rng was gonna screw you over eventually, is the nature of your build. it's pretty unfortunate that it happened there, but maybe not. maybe they just have retarded amounts of evade. mobs start getting pretty extreme evasion and coc rates noticeably drop in level 76+ maps, especially map bosses. so it's not too far fetched to assume damage isn't the only ridiculously beefed stat in atziri

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BoswerLK wrote:

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hissnail wrote:

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Gobla wrote:

I believe what they're saying is that Romira's does apply but it applies after CoC.

So Immortal Call is cast by CoC before Romira's is triggered and thus before any Endurance Charges are gained through Voll's.

But why is that the case? Why is not the Romira's/Voll's Devotion mechanic instant, happening right as Spectral Throw crits?

Also, you'd have to explain to me why we cheesed through insane maps and Poorjoys before coming across this problem.

(And after Gaia's death, he cheesed the second fight in SC too.)

it is instant...so is coc. they can't both be instant at the same time, one of them has to go first, and it's coc

The spells linked to CoC, though, have <100% chance to cast when Spectral Throw crits (it's around 80%). Anyway, it doesn't really matter when taking a singular example, since regardless of which comes first the subsequent cast of Immortal Call will expend Endurance Charges. It was just super unfortunate that somehow one Immortal Call didn't expend Endurance Charges, whereas all other ones did. I guess that's the limit to which we can explain why the problem didn't come up earlier; that is, it just didn't happen often.

EDIT: And to comment on your edited post, yeah I pretty much agree that RNG was going to bite at some point, but...really didn't expect it to be then.

EDIT 2: And I guess this whole thread wouldn't really be that big of a deal had it been SC and not HC. It seems like the build will have to be improved (I am aware how to improve it) to remove any gimmicks/hiccups.

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sevenOfDiamonds wrote:

GGG's goal of the ARPG equiv to MTG has now been succesfully completed.

Stack resolution issues anyone?

Haha, true. :D

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

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Can you explain why every IC must always use at least 1 Endurance? Romira's only generates Power on non-crits, so if you have a sufficient string of crits shouldn't a 0-Endurance IC be possible?

Because it's impossible to happen. Crit and hit chances, in fact, are NOT random, game mechanics doesnt allow you to have too long streak of luck/unluck. Read PoE wiki for more info. --

Can someone find some info about crits not being totally random? I've never heard of this before.

I might be mistaken, but I think what happened is this. You hit three monsters with Spectral Throw's critical hits without having any non-crits between the first two hits.

-First ST crit hit converts all power charges you have. It doesn't matter if it triggered IC.

-Second ST crit hit triggers IC and speds all your endurance charges. You have no power charges to convert, so you end up with 0 charges.

Here you may or may not have non-crits as long as the next crit is the one that procs IC.

-Third ST crit hit triggers a 0-charged IC. Any power charges are converted afterwards.

You die before pulling off another IC.

Even if crits are not completely random, the same activation of Spectral Throw can cause all of this.

Bad luck. Sorry for your loss. =(

Edit: The same thing happens at 1:03 and 1:42 in the video... minus the part where you die.

from what i know, there isn't really a specific order. coc sometimes cast supported skills in a random order(COC,Volls Armour&Amulet,Cold Snap,Discharge , sometimes,you will see lightning discharge,sometimes not.). but for his case, it didn't matter, coz only his IC was eating the charges.

What I observed is

>SpecThrow no crit
>Romira triggers.
>Specthrow crit
===
>Devotion Triggers
>IC triggers.
>ice spear triggers.
===
It seems the order of these 3 events could be aligned randomly.

in his case, IC/IS > Devotion.

bowing out

When I theorycrafted a build like this I had the same idea to maintain IC with Romira's and Voll's (with an extra addition, but that's not really relevant here) and the only way I could think of that removed any potential for IC to go off at the wrong time was to manually cast it.

Since the activation of all the related factors rely completely on rng it is quite simply only a matter of time before it fails. There will always be a window of vulnerability unless you cast it yourself after making sure you have endurance charges. This makes it more of a hassle but at least it is possible to avoid potential problems since you can prepare to escape if you see you're not getting charges.

You didnt crit when you needed to, simple as that. You were also aiming at the wall, Etup style.

Let me see if I get this straight: There is a combination of skills and gear that allow a player to become permanently immortal in combat?

Is it also correct to say that this build is not being advertised in the class forums? Haven´t seem the magic instructions around there.

The funny thing is: A couple of months ago I've sold a Voll's ammy. It was under 5 exalted if I recall correctly. Just checked it out: There is no Volls Ammy under 15 exalted (standard) and no Volls Ammy at all at Ambush... so I guess this build has being undergroundly used by a elite group of players?

I'm so full of envy right now that I could cast a level 20 curse.